First post from a newbie

[katanaman]

That's so cool!  The back wheels on my S-2 are off the ground right now!!!                             Dan

[EuropaTC]

That extra cooling air flow into the engine bay does make sense Joe.  The rear of the car is all open and could easily be a low pressure area (at that tremendous speed I spoke of earlier  ) and so it might be possible that the ducts are there to force air through the bay and out the back ?   

They look too far back to be a cabin ventilation feature and don't seem connected to any sort of trunking inside the engine bay. And the carbs are only on one side anyway, so you'd only need one for a cool induction feed. A puzzle. Any of our racing guys know ?

Brian

[LeftAngle]

  Cal44... Unbelievably beautiful, but you've got me.  Is that an oil catch tank and nitrus up front? I don't see a turbo, nor is it fuel injected.  An extremely small air conditioner?  Please don't say it's a pressurized windshield washer tank with AN hoses for a push-button pump:)

I don't know what the official answer to the duct question is, but I know what mine are being set up for.  I can't tell you, because that wouldn't be in line with Lola T250's request... btw... off-topic... What's it like driving an open wheeled rocket?

[Lola T250]

LeftAngle

OK, I can no longer stand the suspense.  I will come up with another newbie question in my pursuit to recruit a new contributor.  Please tell me what are the NACA ducts for?  And you better not say they are coin slots that you use when pouring money into to make the car go.   

BTW...if you were asking about driving my open wheeler to tell you the truth it has a quirk.  I am either stuck to the pavement or I am not.  And every time I was not and unintentionally departed the asphalt for a view of the infield,  the Lola seems to accelerate exponentially.  Strange, very strange.  Does a Lotus Europa have that tendency?

Ron

[EuropaTC]

Please tell me what are the NACA ducts for?  And you better not say they are coin slots that you use when pouring money into to make the car go.   

    Ron, you clearly are the ideal Lotus owner......   

If you're giving in to suspense on the other question about flying, I don't know anything about Jim Clark's history but I have reference that he first flew in the RAF when he would have been a teenager and got his pilot's licence in 1951 at the age of 23. There's a website in memory of CABC with lots of info about him and early Lotus days.  This is the link to the "Aviation" page, but it's worth half an hour browsing around the drop down menus as there are lots of interesting snippets in there.

http://www.colinchapmanmuseum.org.uk/General/Interest/Aviation.html

[Lola T250]

EuropaTC

I enjoyed the link that you provided.  I did have a bit of an issue though with the paragraph on Mr. Chapman being a pilot.  If I recall correctly, the author used one possibly and two probablies in the same paragraph. 

I sent links to the administrator for consideration for posting regarding Mr. Chapman and Mr. Clark.  In them I could deduct from their dates of birth that Mr. Chapman was (disclaimer) likely involved with flying before Mr. Clark.  So if there was influence, we (disclaimer) probably know which direction the influence it went.  If Kantanaman is interested, at the bottom of the article on Mr Clark it indicated that he flew a Comanche (which I think is a Piper).

Let me apologise to the Forum if in my research on the Lotus Europa and my subsequent postings have been off topic for the website.  I am taken by the Lotus marque and the Europa is my pick of the litter.   I am hopeful that all the Europa owners and drivers out there understand and are aware of just how privileged you are to have a car with such a rich history in its linage.  Case in point, there was an individual named Mr. Graham Hill who also drove a Lotus (and was also a pilot).  From what I have read he is the only driver to win the triple Crown of Motorsports — the  24 hours of Le Mans, the Indianapolis 500 and Formula One World Championship.

There is no doubt in my mind that I'd reflect on that if I was a Lotus Europa owner whenever I was looking at or waxing that little World Champion Constructors badge on the side of the car.

Still waiting in anticipation for a reply from LeftAngle on the NACA ducts.

Ron

 

[Lola T250]

Members of the forum

Had I been paying attention, or had Lotus Joe told me there was a picture,  I would have put the question of the NACA ducts to bed several posts ago.  I found his reference last night.   Rephrasing what I took away from it is that the earliest few examples of the Lotus Type 47's that were built did not incorporate the ducts into the bodywork.  Excessive temperatures were found occurring in the engine bay and the duct work was incorporated into subsequent cars. Good enough for me. Thank you Lotus Joe.

I think that pretty much clears the questions I asked, and along the way I also learned that double clutching a Europa was not a requirement.   Such is the power of the forum by the contributions of it's members.

To a member of the forum that has yet to post a comment it sure would be nice to hear from you. Feel free to reply to the forum on this thread if it will make it easier for you.   Maybe you can give a few lines to the forum on why you find the Lotus Europa appealing,  advise the forum if you are an owner or enthusiast, or simply mention if you have learned anything from this posting.

Thanks to all,

Lola T250

 

 

[LeftAngle]

Ron:

Sorry for the delay in responding but life had kept me off the forums for a few days.  When I got back on, I failed to check out the second page of this one... Until now... My bad.

Yes, I was referring to your Lola and I don't know if the same thing happens in an Europa, never having driven to the limits you have.  I suppose. after I get mine back on the road, I could try and report back to you, but only if I can find a pair of brown trousers to wear before attempting it on the track... In public.

In regards to your duct question, I'd like to add that the openings on the rear deck are located in an area of low pressure.  In my analysis of the design, at speed, with no snorkel, air is extracted from them, not the other way around as one would think they'd work.  The underneath portion of the car is also a low pressure area and the engine itself is doing its part to further reduce the amount of air pressure and therefore, drag inside the rear of the car.   As pressure drops, the air around the engine stops moving, thermal conduction slows, heat builds up and becomes problematic as Lotus Joe stated.  The ducts start things moving again, bringing cool air in, mixing with the hot air, lowering the temperature and once more, making things right with the world.

This is only speculation, but I imagine a good part of the reason ducts aren't on all production Europas is because adding ducts (and side mounted fuel fillers) dramatically increases the complexity and cost of the manufacturing process.

I'm adding ducts to my S2, but discovered early on that if the inner skin is left un-modified, incoming air gets trapped inside the wings and between the body and engine compartment skins.   With the exception of a couple of very small openings, it can't exit this space until it passes over the wheel wells. That's pretty much at the rear end of the car.

On the left side, I plan to cut an opening in the interior fiberglass skin directly behind the fuel tank so cool(er) and denser air is directed toward the DHOC carb's air intakes.

On the other side, I've glassed off the small openings between the skins, so all the air coming into the duct moves through the inside of the wing and empties into the large empty space at the rear corner (where the tail light and side marker are located).  IMHO this is a perfect place to mount a future oil cooler.   Having a forced air duct pre-installed will be a great bonus.

At the risk of becoming totally boring, I'm adding a couple of pictures, one of a Type 47 and one of mine.  You can see how the 47's duct dumps directly into the engine bay.  Mine continues through to the end of the wing section.  It's also larger.  It needs the additional area to help compensate for the increased friction of the trip to the rear.  I also think it looks better:)

Again, sorry for the slow response.  I'd like to add that I'm impressed with your creativity and, a bit disappointed that you couldn't scare anyone out of the unpublished pool.  I've only been a member for a month or two and now they cant get me to shut up, so keep trying and keep thinking up more good stuff.

Bruce

[cal44]

Bruce,
thanks for the update.  Since I don't have a life...........keep posting.

Mike

[Lola T250]

LeftAngle,

Thanks for the update on your NACA ducts.  You have certainly given it a lot of thought.  Have you tried or are you considering any of these in addition to keep the heat down in the engine bay?

Install a dry sump, more oil gives you less heat per quart
Install or upgrade your oil and or transmission coolers
Install insulated wrap on your headers
Install cowl flaps with servos that open additional vents on the engine cover when called for

OK forum, any other ideas?

Lola T250

 

[LeftAngle]

Hi Lola T250,

I'll answer your questions in the order you put them:

The car won't be racing much (if at all) and a dry sump may present potential problems for street cars.  What I'll be doing instead, as soon as I get all the parts together, is add a remote oil system.  With one or two larger filters, there'll be up to two extra quarts of oil flowing through the motor.

I do plan to put a small radiator in the rear for the oil.  As soon as I get a few extra bucks.  This is not on my short list, but I am planning the body work around it.

I don't like the look of wraps and have heard they're not good for corrosion.  Instead, I'll be painting them with white ceramic and when the cash is in hand, have them powder coated.

Cowl flaps... That's interesting.  Have not considered that.  A couple of years ago, when I was in the planning stage, I searched unsuccessfully for a clear lexan cover for the engine cover.  It's possible short snorkels could be formed in it to force air into the space, or your cowl flaps (much cooler... in the bling sense).


Hmmm....

To the contrary of trying to keep heat away from the interior, I've cut a hole in the firewall between the seats.  this for me, is a win/win modification, as with nothing between me and the engine, it's easy for me to access the water hoses, fuel lines, battery, carburetor and spark plug wires from the inside.  Last week, I finalized my throttle hookup by sitting on the driver's side floor, moving the throttle pedal with my right hand and adjusting the tension at the Webers with my left.  Piece of cake for a job that would normally take 2 people or half an afternoon moving from low sitting position to standing and back again over and over.

There's a cover made with 2 sheets of 3/8" Lexan separated by a 1 1/2" airspace that fits with gaskets to seal the opening. I haven't run the figures to check the U value (it is what it is), but if it's too warm, I'll give up the view for proper insulation.  I figure it would be nice to be able to see the engine like motorcyclists do.

If you have information about those cowl flaps, Id be interested in looking at it.  I never know what will float my boat:)

Bruce

[Lola T250]

Bruce

I think the upgrades you are considering are good ones.  They should help and shouldn't require too much engineering/fabrication.

I have yet to learn how to post a photo but I may be able to guide you to a few ideas if you can do a Google (no affiliation) image search.  Try an image search on Cowl Flaps.  Look for the photos of old radial engine aircraft that are on the tarmac.  The cowl flaps open around the nacelle to assist in the dispensing of the heat.  The photos will get you in the ball park.  Then image search Retractable Spoilers.  Look for the Porches and some Audi's  The spoilers deploy and retract when called for.  You might use the same approach with a flap on the engine cover to expel heat from the engine bay and when not in use it wouldn't detract from the looks of the car.   

I was curious if anyone had made an access panel in the firewall between the seats to gain access to the engine.   Now I know, thanks.

Lola T250
 

 

[LeftAngle]

Thanks.  I know what cowl flaps are. I just thought you knew of specific devices that are available.  I think the idea about a sliding rear window (which wouldn't be all that difficult,  especially if it were made of lexan or plexi... Or modify the original glass window to slide up and down on tracks mounted at the corners behind the seats) would be the most efficient way to cool down.

As ar as the pass-through goes, it's been done for a long time.  The first instance I remember was documented in an issue of ReMarque, probably in the mid 80s ( I tried to locate it, but wasn't successful).  If I recall, the hole was made temporarily, but don't remember if it was permanently covered over after the job was done, or if a cover plate was added.  I don't know if anyone else has ever turned the portal into a bling statement with lights and clear lexan though. 

I do know I'll be thumbing through these magazines again shortly.  They've been gathering dust on my shelf, but I came across a fair number of interesting articles about topics that are currently being discussed on this, as well as the Yahoo site. 

For example, March 87 tells how to lower your Europa and August of 85 shows a design for a window vent (if you haven't already figured out, I'm writing these down now, so I can use this as reference when I pass on the information:).  Oh ya, February 83 has a long article on Europa overheating... No flaps mentioned:), but plenty of other creative modifications are covered.

If I come across the pass-through article, I'll give a head's up and let you know if there's anything specific you (or I) need to know, but for now, I'll head over to the other threads and impart some of my discovery on those other subjects, then I'm diving into those back issues:)

Bruce