Banks Cltuch Fork Mod

[RobinW]

  My Europa S2 arrived with a new clutch. The previous owner fitted a new Banks 3 part clutch set. The problem is the clutch lever seems to go over centre at the bite point. The clutch is like a switch. I have just taken the box off. There is a brand new pressure plate and clutch disc. The release bearing looks new and is of the radius ed not flat type and looks like the one in the Banks parts picture. The clutch lever moves a very long way before coming into contact with the pressure plate.

 I cannot see any mods to the fork. The problem seems to be that the release bearing is not far enough forward and binds on the tube running through the centre. I am wondering if the previous owner actually had the fork modified but I do not know what to look for.

Anyone know what the mod is for the improved Banks clutch.

I may just chuck it and buy a standard set form SJ. Once I can get those pins out.

[BDA]

  RobinW!

Sorry I can't help with your specific problem. It sounds like you know enough to know that it's not an adjustment issue. Did you give Richard a call? He's a very friendly and knowledgeable guy. Maybe someone else here will be able to help you out with it.

I hope to see you around here going forward and I know we'd all love to see some pictures of your baby!

[EuropaTC]

Another hello and 

I'll be honest and say I'm of no help at all here as my car is a TC, but coincidentally I did buy one of Richard's carriers for my clutch when it broke a year or so ago. If you've not spoken to him you'll find he's a very "hands on" guy and I'm pretty sure if you rang him up then he'd give you a good idea of where to go next over the phone.

From what you say it sounds like it's either not been assembled correctly or requires some machining to fit, whatever the answer Richard is the man to talk to.

Brian

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

Welcome Robin, If only Lotus still made or sourced the parts. Good Luck    Stuart         

[RobinW]

Thanks for the welcome.

I have done some research and have discovered the problem. It would appear that the Banks Clutch kit uses a TC release bearing. The moded part is not the fork but the bearing carrier onto which the release bearing is pressed. The original Renault carrier is turned down to allow the radiused TC bearing to push on. The problem is that the new pressure plate does not have the riveted ring which presses on the fingers of the pressure plate. this means the release bearing has to travel a long way before it makes contact. In fact it just goes over centre when fully pressed and comes off the end of the guide tube over the input shaft causing the sudden engage/disengage. The fix is to  pack the release bearing on the carrier. I plan to mod the carrier next week and will post a drawing of what I have done.

The result should correct the geometry and probably reduce the clutch pedal pressure as well.

[BDA]

Glad you figured it out! I hope this means you'll be on the streets with your baby soon!

[Bainford]

Hello Robin, and welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear you have the clutch issue worked out. Cheers 

[dfenimore]

My clutch is a kit I bought from Rdent that has had the same instant on instant off behavior. I extended the distance the release bearing from the fork by adding a large washer to the carrier. The pedal still feels the same way. I have not been able to further test it because now there is no connection between the transmission and engine any more, which is puzzling. No matter what gear I put it in, when I turn the wheels the pulley's do not turn also.
I don't know for sure if Rdent is reselling clutch kits from Banks since he won't reveal his source. It doesn't match the photo on the Banks site. I put about 1500 miles on it before I decided I'd have enough. Stop and go traffic is a killer with this thing. No fun at all. And I keep getting stuck in stop and go traffic.
This is my first post here, as far as I know. So I'm not up to speed on how photos are shared.

[BDA]

dfenimore, it doesn't matter but the forum thought that was your third post, but in the even that you weren't formally welcomed, let me:

  dfenimore!!!

r.d. enterprises buys some things from Richard and they also have some reproduction parts that they had manufactured. I know for a fact that their gas strut kt for the boot comes from Richard. I think they also get their tubular front A-arms from Richard, too. On the other hand, they have their own hinge kit and I believe they had copies of the headlight switch made for them. The fact that r.d. gets suspension parts from Richard, I would assume they also get their clutch kit from Richard, too. If that is true, it is likely that Richard has agreed not to reveal himself as the source of any of r.d.'s parts and for technical information, you'd have to got to r.d.

I'm not familiar with the S2 clutch but I'm figuring that RobinW's solution would not work for you since you're still having trouble. I would suggest a call to r.d. to see what they have to say. If they're stumped, maybe you can put a bug in their ear to ask the source of their parts (in as smooth a way as possible). If that doesn't work, you might try Richard and say that whoever you bought it from said the parts came from him (describing the parts to make sure) and see what he says.

Good luck!

[dakazman]

 

Robin , Glad you found your way here . We would love to see some pictures of your build.

Dakazman

[Serge]

I have a sketch from Richard in my parts somewhere, on how to mod the bearing carrier. I'll search for it this weekend, and upload it here.


Serge

[rascott]

i got a clutch set from rdenterprises for my s2.
the release bearing carrier needed machining for the replacement bearing(instructions included).
everything fit and appeared normal on reassembly.
feels o k, but only a few road miles and driveway moving, so far...
no indication of the bearing needing to travel so far up the tube as to come off.....

[RobinW]

 :deadhorse:Well I got to the bottom of the problem. Having modified the release bearing carrier with a welded on extension and a 7mm spacer the release bearing now meets the pressure plate correctly.

Unfortunately the on/off switch mode clutch still exists. I placed the pressure plate in a drill press and operated the diaphragm to understand what is happening. The over center sensation occurs as the diaphragm fingers pass through the flush position this occurs as the pressure plate lifts by 8mm(The thickness of the clutch disk).

I refitted the pressure plate with some 0.5mm washers under the pressure plate bolts to simulate 0.5mm wear on the clutch disk and checked the release point again. There was some improvement but it was tricky to balance the clutch and the clutch lever seems under immense pressure.

I have come to the conclusion that this particular pressure plate must be out of limits. I dropped a note to Banks but have had no reply as yet.

I have now sourced an old stock Renault 16 pressure plate and purchased a disk and release bearing from SJ. So I will try that out and see if its solves the problem.

 I'll post the result.