Question on Water Pump and Sealant

[thehackmechanic]

Hey, folks. I'm rebuilding the twin cam motor in my '74 TCS after many years of inactivity (the car was last driven in 1979). I got the lower end parts back from the machinist and have the crank and pistons in. Very exciting! I have a few questions.

1) Water Pump. The pump was stuck but good. I had to use a slide hammer on the hub to get the front housing off the engine. The pump itself turns only with great difficulty. I was assuming I'd spend the money and buy Dave Bean's cartridge-style pump (the Burton cartridge-style pump only appears to be configured for Elans, not Europas), but it is on backorder. I call every month and there's been no change in status. So I'm reconsidering the idea of idea of going back to the stock setup, but I'm afraid that I might screw it up. Is there anyone to whom I could send the front cover and have them send it back to me with a new pump in it?

2) Gasket Sealant. I'm following Miles Wilkins' engine book. He recommends against Hylomar, and specifically recommends Stag Wellseal. I see on forums where people are still using Hylomar, or Permatex "The Right Stuff." Any recommendations for general gasket sealant?

Thanks.

--Rob

[BDA]

Hey Rob! Glad you finally got your motor from the machine shop!

I know this doesn't answer either of your questions but I thought I'd mention that there has been some intriguing chatter on the yahoo group about electric water pumps. Here's the one that is usually mentioned (http://daviescraig.com.au/product/ewp80-electric-water-pump/ewp80-electric-water-pump). It might be worth looking into it.

Edit...
Looking around, I found these guys in England who seem to have a similar setup (http://initracing.co.uk/parts-for-sale/lotus-twin-cam-front-cover/).

[thehackmechanic]

Thanks. I'm aware of the electric water pump solution, but I believe that, for that to work, you need to have an intact non-leaking water pump seal in your front cover, and the odds of that being the case in mine are slim.

--Rob

[jbcollier]

Different sealants for different locations.  I use oil-proof silicone (Permatex or 3-Bond), aviation gasket cement, hylomar, and plain old grease depending on the application.

General notes:

- do not use silicone sealers where there is pressure or where there is coolant

- use silicone sealers sparingly.  Too many engines die when a chunk of dried silicone plugs an oil way.

- grease is great where there are machined surfaces and you may have to repeatedly assemble and disassemble.

- hylomar is excellent between machined surfaces with no gasket, and, where you may want to reuse the gasket (thermostat)

- I use a #2 aviation gasket goo quite a bit.  I cut my teeth using it on air-cooled  VWs and have ‘t been able to break the habit.

[BDA]

Rob, did you see the edit to my earlier post?

[Pfreen]

My two cents,
I removed the water pump guts completely after three engine removals since 1986 for the water pump.  I made an o ring plug for the water pump bearing bore and threaded the weep hole for a small allen head plug.

The Davies Craig pump works great. It is installed right at the engine water inlet.  I kept all the heater and coolant makeup lines the same as original. 

As far as sealant, I went by Wilkins book and sealed the o rings and front cover with ultra black, many times.  Never had a leak.  The pressurized tube of ultra black works well to make a thin bead.

One last thing, I pressure test the water jacket to 12 psiafter engine assembly to make sure the water seals and head gasket are tight.

Good luck!

[thehackmechanic]

BDA, I see it now, thanks. I'll follow up on it.

--Rob

[LotusJoe]

I have had excellent results with this product.

[tedtaylor]

Is there anyone to whom I could send the front cover and have them send it back to me with a new pump in it?

Thanks.

--Rob

Rob,
I know Don Butler of "Unionjack Exotics" out of Maryland would do it just as you say.  Ship it to him, he'll do the work and ship it back.  Quality job, very experienced.    Good luck.
TED

[thehackmechanic]

Got it, Ted. Thanks so much.

--Rob

[Lotuswins]

Hi Rob,

I have tried the 3 bond/yamabond/hondabond stuff...great on transmission halves where there are no gaskets....but on gaskets...well, then you have to break the gasket in half to get it apart.  I did it on a transmission, and had a really hard time getting the pieces apart without damaging anything (including the aluminum case).  So I wouldn't recommend it for gasket use.  I still use hylomar, since the gaskets will release and are often reusable.  I've also used 'the right stuff' and had good success, though that is for when you don't have a gasket and had one before....

As for the pump, I would assume any formula ford engine rebuild firm could do it, like Vegher in Petaluma, www.omnitech-engineering.com in Seattle (john McCoy), iveyengines.com out of Portland OR, or Steve Smith of TwinCam Sports Cars out of Sarasota FL to name a few.

Hope this helps.....Jerry Rude 4005R

[thehackmechanic]

So, related question. I see how the Elan/Cortina front cover that Burton sells for its cartridge pump is different from the Europa's front cover -- that the water passage exits to the side whereas on the Europa the side passage is shut with a plug and the passage is instead from the front -- but what is it on the Europa that prohibits use of the side water passage? Forgive the newbie question, but the engine is out of the car; I can't judge what would be in the way. Is there no way to simply use an S-shaped hose?

Thanks.

--Rob

[jbcollier]

 Chassis gets in the way.

[thehackmechanic]

Right. Yes. Thanks. I suppose it had to be something like that or they just would've used an S-shaped hose at the factory instead of changing the front timing cover. Oh well...

[jbcollier]

Should be pretty easy to modify on of the cassette water pump covers by welding on an alloy spigot, etc.