Door Hinge Removal

[2766R]

I need a little advice from the gang:  I removed the driver's (left) side door card.  As you can see, the upholstery has separated from the card and is also damaged from the seat belt getting caught up.  The full length of the right angle bend in the card is also cracked.   That's easy; grinding out some material, epoxy in a strip of matting.  Also order new upholstery for both doors.

Here now is the question: I would like to attempt to remove the hinge pins.  I might get lucky as they don't appear too bad after, what, 45+ years.  I know what you are all thinking: 
But seriously, can any of you confirm wether or not the pins are threaded at the bottom.  I haven't removed the sill panels as of yet.  My thinking is using a piece of tubing with an ID larger than the pin and pulling with a threaded rod.  Alternately, a slide hammer.  Any attempts at these methods?       

[2766R]

For some reason the other photos didn't go through:

[BDA]

The pins are threaded at the bottom - 1/4-20 or 5/16-18. Those hinges look really good but since you're taking them out anyway, I'd replace them with either stainless steel hinges from r.d. Or the brass hinges from Richard. I have Richard's and I like them but I've never worked with the stock type hinges so I can't compare them.

[Grumblebuns]

Your hinge assembly looks to be in about the same condition as the ones in my S2 when I pulled the door cards for the door alignment. I was lucky in that all I had to do was spray PB Blaster on the lock nuts for several day and they came loose. There was no need to remove the stock hinge pin even though I had a SS hinge pin replacement on hand as I was only doing a door alignment. I would start spraying PB Blaster, Kroil, or the acetone/ATF mixture to start the loosening process.

In my case, I chose to re-use the stock pin since I was going to sell the S2 after re-aligning the doors. For you the biggest problem is the steel pin (assuming you get the locknuts loose) rusting to the 23mm threaded bushings forcing you to pull the pin out from the bottom as you describe. If the pin is rusted solid to the bushing, I would go straight to cutting the pin from both top and bottom and remove the door out. You can then work on removing the rusted pin remnant on the bench. I've attached pictures of the items I collected in replacing my doors hinges. Not a fun job, good luck.       

[EuropaTC]

As BDA says, the pins should be threaded and so you can screw in a threaded bar and make a sort of slide hammer technique with it. The top bush/pin looks good but I wouldn't be surprised if the lower one isn't rusted solid into the bush. If you can watch the pin while opening the door and the pin doesn't move relative to the bush then it's seized and you have the steel pin rotating against the aluminium (?) bush in the lower sill. 

That's not good because the bush in the still wears and you get slop in the door even if you manage to adjust it to close properly. It's also very common (mine was the same) so while the door is in pieces I'd remove the pin and at the very least replace with 1/2" stainless rod. With any luck you will be able to re-use the steel components that bolt into the door itself.

There are kits around which are arguably better designed but more expensive than stock, for example Banks Engineering.  You pays your money, etc.

Brian

[GavinT]

If you can watch the pin while opening the door and the pin doesn't move relative to the bush then it's seized and you have the steel pin rotating against the aluminium (?) bush in the lower sill. 

That's not good because the bush in the still wears and you get slop in the door even if you manage to adjust it to close properly.

Agreed, but I don't see any situation where the pin is constrained relative to door movement.
I've always presumed it was just a poor design.

Have I missed something?

[EuropaTC]

Your interpretation is right as far as I can see, there's no constraint on the pin other than friction at the aluminium inserts and it is a poor (but cheap) design.  Perhaps if the cars were used daily then seizure wasn't a problem but wear on the aluminium inserts was certainly known about back in the 80s with my local specialist making brass bush inserts to restore the clearances.

The pins were seized on my car when I bought it so I replaced them with stainless rods crudely locked t in place. I remember posting here about it (but didn't realise it was 2 years ago, time flies when you're having fun ! )

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1130.msg9553;topicseen#msg9553

Brian

[GavinT]

G'day Brian,

That's a good idea noted in your other thread.

But now you have me thinking . . and that's often dangerous.

How about this:
Drill & tap the body bobbins for your choice of Helicoil or Time-Sert - 1/2" thread.
Install stainless steel bolts to suit - one upper and one lower.
That would eliminate the bobbin wear/slop altogether and I reckon would make working on the doors much easier and without the need for one's beautiful assistant.

[2766R]

Brian, BRILIANT!  I like your design and will certainly incorporate it to prevent further issues. 

But the plot thickens: Just as I thought I'd be lucky and not resort to extream messures, the DPO and his associate (read a collision specialist who obviously wasn't) changed everything for the worst.     I should have known better as there were some evidence of prior damage: missing pin stripe on the right fender (wing), cracked sill valance, said valance held in place at the ends with screws, not rivets...and only (1) nut on the upper and lower hinge bushings! Some kind of half shim on top???  And this pin (right side) is in much worse condition than the the left...aha, due to an ill fitted wheel arch closure.  Looks like plan 'B', as in 'when in doubt, cut it out.  The original plan was to loosen the hinge pins so I could remove the doors easily while the rest is prepped for a respray later this year (late Fall) and work on the doors separately.  I'm not in a rush.  I'm going to enjoy driving it for the time being and apply penetrating fluid periodically.  I will definitely replace the hinging and, of course, employ Brian's solution.  I'll update on the progress as appropriate.

Gerry

[BDA]

Sorry about the previous dodgy repair. Sometimes it's entertaining to see what other people call a repair and sometimes it's maddening. When you get to it, I hope everything goes smoothly!