Mirror image

[Gmg31]

My project is all but done but I have a burning issue that I have been considering for almost two years.  Mirrors or no mirrors? I love the lines of the Europa and I’m not sure adding mirrors offers much benefit. I’m considering rear facing cameras rather than to spoil the profile. So I would welcome members views, opinions and photos please.

[Certified Lotus]

I love the clean lines of your Europa sans mirrors........but if you going to drive the car on the road a drivers side mirror is a must. Rear view camera does not help you when changing lanes and a car is in your “blind spot” which in this car is many.

[Grumblebuns]

A lot depends on the requirements of the vehicle safety code of the country or state in which the car is located. California requires two rear view mirrors, one has to be located on the drivers side door. It does not address any electronic type of rear view assistance so I would have to assume that it can't be a substitute of one of the mirrors.

Check your local laws before deciding. 

[jbcollier]

Mirrors are a personal choice but a practical necessity.  EVERY period report complained about the massive blindspots and all the cars tested either had no mirrors or a pair of poorly placed small mirrors.  If you are just going to show your car, no issues.  Driving in traffic?  You need mirrors.  A camera mounted at the rear will not show you what is on your four or your eight.

Considering all that I went with light racing mirrors on a stalk.  Not everyone's taste by any means:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-QrHwrDV/A

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-smcwBrB/A

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-TrmJmgj/A

They are large convex mirrors and, when adjusted so a slight sideways movement of the head is required to see the side of the car, I have no blind spots.  I have the benefit of using plexi windows but body mounted could be made to work equally as well.

Do you like them?  Probably not.  But I do and I love being able to see everything.

All the best in trying to find something that works for you.

[EuropaTC]

I would suggest you drive the car before making a decision or fitting anything.  When I bought my car it came with 2 door mirrors and whilst looking great, they weren't very much use for seeing behind.  The first photo shows the style and the problem was that the mirrors were fitted quite close to the door panel. This looks cool and works to a certain extent on the driver's side but I could never get enough angle on the passenger side mirror to actually see anything from the drivers seat. If I wanted to see out of that when reversing I had to lean across.

I've tried various permutations including a period with only a driver's door mirror, but the most practical mirror I've had has been a modern pair on pedestal mounts. However being a fashion victim I just didn't like the car with them, so reverted to the ones you see in the second photo, which are stainless steel period  "bullet" style.

These are also pedestal mounted and by replacing the mirror with a convex one (Ebay, £5 each IIRC) I can see down both sides of the car without doing contortions. With this type there is also the option to fit a taller pedestal mount which would probably help a little.

But in practice I rarely use them when driving, the only reason two door mirrors are fitted is because my workshop has an incline and I lose vision out back if I reverse in, so I need to use the side mirrors to avoid knocking lumps off the workshop door.

So I'd try driving the car first and see how you go. If you want to keep the car looking period there aren't many options - the Vitaloni series look period (as my original ones) but if you actually want to see anything whilst driving I think you'd need a modern mirror, something like the ones used on the Elise S1, which is a Metro mirror on a pedestal mount.

Brian

[BDA]

I agree with everyone about mirrors. Modern cars can have cameras mounted all over the place. Nice but where and how are you going to mount mirrors and the screens on your dash? A camera on a stalk on your door probably isn't the answer either for the same reason. I think the only solution is to mount the nicest mirrors you can find (nicest might mean the smallest useful mirror).

I second Brian's suggestion to have a real idea of how to see what you want to see in your mirrors. I hated the fact that the stock passenger mirror was useless. When I built my car I put two pretty large flag style electric mirrors on both doors. Because they are higher and larger than the original Sebring mirrors that came on the car, I thought mounting would be simple. I was in too much of a hurry and the passenger mirror is (again) useless to me! Don't assume you'll be able to adjust it to see what you want. Mount them so that you see what you want in as close to the center of the adjustment as possible. Then you can fine tune.

[GavinT]

Mirrors are a real pain on a Europa. I have difficulty finding something that looks reasonably pleasing and actually works.

John’s mirrors are very sexy . . . though I’d be worried about losing them to an errant shopping trolly. Plus, of course, most of us will need to use a lower mounting point. And that’s the rub . . any mirror that’s aesthetically pleasing fits close to the bodywork . . and usually doesn’t work.

I have a couple of original Sebring mirrors . . all very nice and all that but they’re hopeless.
I’ve also got a pair of (Yamaha?) motorcycle mirrors that are small oblong shaped . . a bit like John’s but on a thicker stalk with a ball joint on the head - quite neat.
Don’t discount the motorcycle world for suitable mirrors that might take your fancy

Here’s a pic of a friends Europa with (I think) Ford mirrors. I thought they looked ghastly at first, but they’ve grown on me . . a bit.
The rear vision is pretty good, though.

The other pic is of Mazda MX-5 (Miata) mirrors. They could work, I reckon and aren’t too big.
Gotta have mirrors on stalks to work on a Europa, it seems.

[dakazman]

GMG,GAVINT,JB ETC... ALL OF YOUR CARS LOOK AMAZING  !

I am in the same boat as Gmt no mirrors and have repaired all holes as to the previous placements. I find this thread very interesting.  I guess i will have to wait to sit in vehicle before making a decision. 

Keep posting pictures!

Dakazman

[jbcollier]

Absolutely mock everything up before drilling holes.  Small differences in placement can make a large difference in what is actually visible.

[BDA]

JB is right! That is great advice!

[Gmg31]

I saw a Europa at Silverstone last year that had one on the door and one on the wing. The owner said it was the best configuration for visibility but tbh I thought it looked odd

[Europa73]

I was lucky enough to get my hands on a pair of brushed Talbot & Berlin mirrors.

I like the look of them on the car.

It's not easy to see from the pic - but - one mirror is slightly further back that the other.

This makes them both functional.

Cheers

[EuropaTC]

As yesterday was miserable over here in Lincolnshire I went through the collection of "nope, that's not right" door mirrors.....   

The first 2 shots are the car as of now. These work but as they are small by today's standard your view is obviously not as good as on a modern car. As Europa73 has pointed out, they are not symmetrical with the passenger side being slightly angled to get the twist/viewing plane on the mirror.  I also modified the passenger mirror by altering the pivot point for the mirror base so it's no longer central and this allows a few more degrees of twist. These are stainless cases and normally come with plain mirrors which I replaced with convex mirrors, again for that extra viewing angle.

The 3rd shows the Vitaloni (?) that came with the car. These mounted on a very short plastic mount, no more than 1/4" deep (which I seem to have lost). This worked fine on the drivers side but completely useless on the passenger side. But they are the coolest looking mirrors.....

The 4th is a Chinese copy, £20 the pair and cheaply made. But these work perfectly on both sides of the car and as they are slightly larger the rearwards view is the best of the mirrors here.  The snag for me was that although the mirrors looked ok the pedestal base was too chunky for my tastes and so I didn't bother spraying them to match the car but moved on.  But if you want to see behind you, these are pretty much spot on.

The 5th is the Elise S1 mirror, which is a Austin Metro mirror mounted on a Lotus pedestal. I keep looking around for these pedestals because I reckon these would work and look the part on the Europa.

Placing, as others have said, is critical. What I do is set the driver's side first and try to copy the approximate location on the other side to balance it off. I use double sided tape on the door together with some strips hanging from the windscreen to brace the mirror as it dangles roughly in place.  A helper would be better !

[Certified Lotus]

JB, I used similar mirrors on my Exige S. Here is a photo of the car with OEM mirror on the right and CF racing mirror on a stalk on the left. Close up of install is next photo. These CF mirrors provided a wider view, but smaller image size than OEM (I was looking for wider for the track). The third photo is of two different mirrors I considered.

[BDA]

Probably owing to the fact that it was a little after five in the morning, you forgot to post the pictures, Certified!!