3780R Resto - Engine Restart

[DManglano]

Looking for advice on the best way to restart an engine that has not run for 18 years.
I intend on rebuilding the 175 CD-2 Stromberg carbs.
Draining and replace old fuel.  Inside of tanks look very clean.
Drain and replace engine oil.  New oil filter.
Rebuild fuel pump.
Replace fuel lines.
Replace spark plugs.

Any other suggestions?

Any good restart procedure?  Have watched some you tube videos and they suggest putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders and manually turning over the engine before actually restarting.

[BDA]

  , DMaglano!


I think you have a pretty good handle on it. The Marvel Mystery Oil might be a good idea in case there is any rust on the bores and/or rings. I would replace the mechanical fuel pump with an electric one, but if you're going to keep it, you should rebuild it. Make sure you have a metal 'T' between the carbs. It's surprising that your tanks don't have any rust! I don't like the lip around the top because it can collect water. I might paint them with some good epoxy but it's a pain to take them out and if they're as nice as you say, you can postpone that. While your carbs are off, it would be a great time to install a Pertronix ignition.

When you go to start it the first time, disconnect the ignition and make sure you get oil pressure before you fire it up.

I may have gone a little overboard, but I think you have the idea.

Let us know how it goes!

[jbcollier]

After the oil and filter change, pull the spark plugs, put a couple shots of light engine oil in the cylinders and give it a half hour to work it’s way in.  Disconnect the wire from the distributor at the coil.  Crank in 8 to 10 second bursts until you get oil pressure on the gauge.  Put the plugs back in and it’s ready to start.

I would not rebuild the carbs until after you get it running.  Do drop the float bowls and dashpot covers and clean everything out though.  Overhauling the carbs is an involved process and you lose all your base settings.  The car ran before so the carbs should be somewhat in the ballpark.  Good enough for a first start anyhow.

[DManglano]

Hey JB,
Like your idea of not rebuilding the carbs at first. Question though. Do I have to pull the carbs to drop the floats and dash pot covers?

[jbcollier]

No, just take the intake plenum (box) off and you can reach under to undo the screws.  I've done it loads of times.  Just do one at a time.  Float bowl gaskets and dashpot diaphragms might be needed.  The diaphragm has two tabs.  The inner one indexes to the dashpot, and the other to the carb body.  It lines up the dashpot so the two holes in the bottom are towards the throttle plate (closer to the engine).

[Bainford]

There is a large plug sealed with an o-ring on the bottom of each float bowl. Replace these before trying to start the engine. Be sure to use O-rings suitable for gasoline service, such as nitrile (buna-N) or Viton.

Also, to reiterate very important advice from BDA, ensure the fuel line "T" between the carbs is not the original plastic piece (or any plastic piece at all). Replace it with brass or similarly reliable material. More than one Europa has burned to the ground due to failure of the O-rings or the fuel "T".

[DManglano]

Today I tried a restart.  I made sure the pistons move freely, put in new oil, filter, plugs, and fresh gas.  Gave a few short starts to make sure the everything turned over under power.  Dropped the fuel line into a fresh tank of gas.  Cranked her over few periods of 10 to 15 seconds but did not get her to fire.  Noticed that the fuel pump did not seem to be getting any gas.  Any ideas??

[EuropaTC]

If there's no fuel showing in the glass top of the pump the first thing I'd try is to prime it before turning it over. The mechanical pump is very simple with two rubber flap valves inside and I suppose if it's been left empty for several years they might be having trouble sealing in air to provide enough suction to pull fuel in.  It's a standard Ford part and rebuild kits used to be very common over here.

Before a rebuild I'd dribble some fuel down the line into the pump and it you're using a 1 gallon fuel can as a temporary measure, fix it above the pump. I'd probably spin it over with the plugs removed to build up oil pressure first and that should get the pump working as it'll turn over much faster.  Once it's got some fuel in the bowl then I'd expect the pump to work with the tanks in the car so I'd drop the fuel in there instead.

Brian

[4129R]

With a full tank of petrol, the fuel pump primes itself through gravity.

I filled both tanks to the brim, and by the next weekend, the glass bulb was full of fuel all by itself, with no cranking.

[DManglano]

Still not sure if I'm having issues with the fuel pump, but am certain I'm not getting a spark to any of the plugs.  Removed the distributor cap to make sure it is spinning.  Which it is.  Need to check the coil.  Does anyone have a trick for that other than using a multimeter?

[BDA]

One thing you can do is get an inductive "pen" that you touch a high tension lead while you try to run the engine. The pen lights up when current is flowing. You can use the pen on any high tension lead (coil or spark plug) to see if you're getting spark. The spark in the pen should also indicate the strength of the spark. Here's one on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Lisle-19380-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STS3U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1509995800&sr=8-3&keywords=spark+plug+wire+tester&dpID=31iDgca-27L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

If you are in a hurry, you can take out a plug and ground it while somebody turns the engine over. If you get a strong spark, you coil is probably good.

[4129R]

I had to clean the points up before I got a spark.

Check whether they are making and breaking a circuit with a test meter.

[EuropaTC]

If it's the original setup then my money would be on the contact breaker points. You can clean them roughly in-situ with emery paper but my preference would be simply to remove & replace them if needed.  You can tell a spark at that location by flicking them open them with a small screwdriver - Cap removed, ignition on of course.

Other things to check - rotor arm for secure brass strip in the middle, distributor cap for eroded terminals and the spring loaded central carbon brush moving and not broken off. The internal condenser could also be at fault but generally that's burnt points and not complete failure.  If the internal distributor wiring is untidy it's also possible to have a short inside if any insulation is missing/worn away.

Apart from a multimeter the only check I know of for a coil is to remove the central HT lead and watch the spark to ground as you turn the engine, something I've never been to keen on personally although it used to be common practice.

Brian

[DManglano]

Definitely not getting a spark and everything seems to indicate that the coil needs to be replaced.  But hope springs eternal, so I'm going to get a multimeter to do a proper test.  Just can't seem to find what resistance the meter should register so that I know the coil is good - or bad.  Anyone have that information?

[dakazman]

 There are many 12 volt coil testing videos on you tube.
Have you tried them?
Dakazman