yellow16TS's 1969 S2 from VIC, AUSTRALIA

[dakazman]

 Despares,

  Glad you found your way here and your progress has been inspiring. Keep in touch.
Dakazman

[yellow16TS]

I thought I would post an update on my Europa project. The chassis restoration is about 95% complete. Due to space constraints, I have had to place the body back onto the chassis for now. (They will need to be separated again for minor completion work on the chassis, and for some work on the firewall area).
Progress has been a little slower than I had hoped for. A few health setbacks to deal with.
The body work is getting closer now. A few minor modifications performed, a couple more to complete.

I am looking to do the A pillar reinforcement to my car but I am struggling to find some good photos or detailed steps that a simple guy like me can follow haha. I found some pictures from 2017 that Mike Surber posted. That is all I could really find. So if anyone reading this has some good pics, please share how you did your pillar reinforcing.

I am sticking with the original colour L07 yellow, but I was very tempted to change it. multiple times I have flirted with the idea! Two tone yellow over white and a stripe combination. Also considered all white, all blue and two tone white/blue.
It will end up L07 yellow and the lower "rocker panel" (want for a better term) will go satin black. It was flat black when I purchased the car and I do like the look of it this way as I feel it gives the car's shape a different look from a profile view (as opposed to it being body coloured).

I will post a picture on here when I have had some paint put on it.

Cheers,
Andreas

[jbcollier]

Where they break is the junction of the a-pillar to the roof panel.  A simple piece of flat bar bent to follow the curves will do.  Drill holes along the bar to allow for better bonding.  You're not trying to make a roll bar. just to keep it from cracking.

[gideon]

I have to disagree with JB on this point.  You're better off strengthening it with some extra GRP than by using a piece of steel bar.  A cross section through the A pillar looks a bit like two sides of a triangle.  If you can add the third side to that triangle it will add a lot of additional strength.  Here's a series of pictures of what one Europa owner did using expanding foam to fill the gap, followed by some glass matt on top.

https://puckshots.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/DOC-Europa/i-HNd63t7

Personally I would use a bit of unidirectional glass (or just some tow) and some woven tape or cloth rather than CSM.  That way you can get a bundle of load carrying fibers along the length of the A pillar, and fan them out above and below to spread the load into the body and roof.  I haven't got to that point in my project, but when I do, and if I decide to follow the expanding foam route, then I would probably add some reinforcement inside the foam, as well as on top, just to be on the safe side. 

When this issue cropped up on the mailing list I suggested you could use glass or carbon fiber. I got some pushback about the risks of mixing materials with very different stiffness, including from one member with a great deal of experience in composite structures.  Here's a link to what he said

https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/message/157012

[RonPNW]

I have also considered reinforcing the pillars and roof, largely thinking that it may afford slightly more crash protection. But .... Does it really? There really isn't enough space to do a proper "invisible" minimal role cage and a proper cage would be very intrusive. It just does not seem worth the effort.
But...
I have heard that there can be fit issues with the windshield and that it is some times necessary to tweak the window frame to get a good fit. Is this a real concern and if you do reinforce the pillars would you set yourself up for some real window fit issues?

Ron

[jbcollier]

The a-pillar easily cracks where it joins the roof.  It doesn't take much.  I cracked mine installing the windshield.

[yellow16TS]

Where they break is the junction of the a-pillar to the roof panel.  A simple piece of flat bar bent to follow the curves will do.  Drill holes along the bar to allow for better bonding.  You're not trying to make a roll bar. just to keep it from cracking.

Thank you for your response. There is a minor crack on the RHS top corner. The other side is ok. I have been told that I am pretty lucky because a lot of other cars at this age have worse damage than this by now.

I want to strengthen the top corners (pillar to roof) but I also want to add strength to the whole pillar. Approx half way down on the RH pillar it has slightly bowed. I worry that if I do not attend to this now, with a new windscreen and new rubbers fitted, it will potentially bow further and chafe on the door as it opens and closes.

[yellow16TS]

I have to disagree with JB on this point.  You're better off strengthening it with some extra GRP than by using a piece of steel bar.  A cross section through the A pillar looks a bit like two sides of a triangle.  If you can add the third side to that triangle it will add a lot of additional strength.  Here's a series of pictures of what one Europa owner did using expanding foam to fill the gap, followed by some glass matt on top.

https://puckshots.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/DOC-Europa/i-HNd63t7

Personally I would use a bit of unidirectional glass (or just some tow) and some woven tape or cloth rather than CSM.  That way you can get a bundle of load carrying fibers along the length of the A pillar, and fan them out above and below to spread the load into the body and roof.  I haven't got to that point in my project, but when I do, and if I decide to follow the expanding foam route, then I would probably add some reinforcement inside the foam, as well as on top, just to be on the safe side. 

When this issue cropped up on the mailing list I suggested you could use glass or carbon fiber. I got some pushback about the risks of mixing materials with very different stiffness, including from one member with a great deal of experience in composite structures.  Here's a link to what he said

https://groups.io/g/LotusEuropa/message/157012

Thank you for posting this reply with the link to your photos. This has helped me a lot.

Great work on your restoration. I especially liked the dash top vent bezels you made.

[GavinT]

I fell into the carbon fibre trap.
I used carbon fibre tow to reinforce the A-pillar and fanned it out at the top and bottom.
As mentioned by Richard and Dudley in that old Yahoo thread, mixing carbon fibre and glass is not necessarily going to work as one might expect. It didn't in my case.

The pics in Gideon's 'DOC-Europa' link are from Dennis O’Connell, if I'm not mistaken. Dennis has essentially created a box (triangle) section which looks pretty good IMHO.

But here's the thing; Dennis is starting out with a Federal spec body shell that utilises a bonded in windscreen. That is to say, the shape of the screen surround is likely quite a bit stronger than my Type 54 which doesn't have the extra rigidity afforded by the additional glass recess.

It seems to me that Andreas', mine and JB's body shells are all of the 'gasket' fitted variety (Type 46 & 54) and therefor, more prone to A-pillar cracking at the corners.
My A-pillars are also bowed outwards probably due to the harsh sun where I live.

I'm planning to fabracobble 16 gauge steel plates for both top and bottom corners and weld on something like a half inch tube to connect them.
I've also contemplated making a recess surround to mimic the Fed. spec bonded in windscreen but that'd be a right fag, too.

[gideon]

Andreas, thanks for the compliments but, as Gavin correctly guessed, the pictures are from Dennis O'Connell.

[yellow16TS]

Andreas, thanks for the compliments but, as Gavin correctly guessed, the pictures are from Dennis O'Connell.

I should have read it more carefully! I went back a re-read it. You did say "one europa owner".

They look great anyway if Denis is reading this.

[yellow16TS]

I fell into the carbon fibre trap.
I used carbon fibre tow to reinforce the A-pillar and fanned it out at the top and bottom.
As mentioned by Richard and Dudley in that old Yahoo thread, mixing carbon fibre and glass is not necessarily going to work as one might expect. It didn't in my case.

The pics in Gideon's 'DOC-Europa' link are from Dennis O’Connell, if I'm not mistaken. Dennis has essentially created a box (triangle) section which looks pretty good IMHO.

But here's the thing; Dennis is starting out with a Federal spec body shell that utilises a bonded in windscreen. That is to say, the shape of the screen surround is likely quite a bit stronger than my Type 54 which doesn't have the extra rigidity afforded by the additional glass recess.

It seems to me that Andreas', mine and JB's body shells are all of the 'gasket' fitted variety (Type 46 & 54) and therefor, more prone to A-pillar cracking at the corners.
My A-pillars are also bowed outwards probably due to the harsh sun where I live.

I'm planning to fabracobble 16 gauge steel plates for both top and bottom corners and weld on something like a half inch tube to connect them.
I've also contemplated making a recess surround to mimic the Fed. spec bonded in windscreen but that'd be a right fag, too.

Thanks for the post Gavin. Yes, my car is the gasket style windscreen. I have heard of the federal cars having a bonded screen. Something I have overlooked. When looking at Denis' pictures I was wondering if it was the angle of the pics , but I just couldn't work out why there was no lip on the inner edge left remaining for the windscreen seal to grab onto. It makes sense now that you wrote your post ^.
I have read the Richard at Bank's uses/or used fibreglass rope. That sounds like something worth looking into. I have also heard of aluminium pipe, copper tube and 1/2" hardwood dowel.
So many different methods! I really do not know which one to attempt.

[gideon]

Getting back to Ron's question about window fit - it's probably a good idea to fit the windscreen or in some way temporarily hold it in place before reinforcing the A pillars to make sure that you end up with something that will fit to the windscreen.  It wouldn't hurt to also put the body on the frame.  And if you're really careful then also fit the doors.  If you dig through the mailing list archives you'll find it's been discussed a few times. 

[GavinT]

I have read the Richard at Bank's uses/or used fibreglass rope. That sounds like something worth looking into. I have also heard of aluminium pipe, copper tube and 1/2" hardwood dowel.
So many different methods! I really do not know which one to attempt.

Hi Andreas,

Yes, that's a whole 'nother world all on it's own and there's lots of ways to skin that cat.
Not sure about any particular advantage re copper pipe, but in general, they're intended to resist compression of the rib's core. It's a fascinating subject.

In my case of bowed A-pillars, as I've said, I reinforced them with carbon fibre and it didn't work because I misunderstood.
Of course, what I'm left with is a thicker mass of pillar that's still bowed!

Going forward, I'm intending to grind away nearly all of the A-pillar thickness, leaving just a thin face where it was in contact with the original mould. I'll then attach a former to the face side of the A-Pillar with temporary hot glue or something in order to restore it to straight.
From there, I'll re-glass to reinstate the thickness of the A-pillar & likely introduce a stiffener rib of some sort.
Gideon's point about using unidirectional glass & woven tape is probably worthwhile for this application and it won't be seen when covered with trim.

Cheers,
Gavin

[RonPNW]

Re Gideon's comments.
Yes, that makes the most sense. I'll leave everything above the doors 'as is' until the body is back on the frame and the windshield is set.

My plan is to add a couple of pieces to 1" fiberglass tape to the pillars and a 1/4 in thick foam "beam" covered in a couple of layers of fiberglass into the roof to control oil canning / cracks. I'll use epoxy resin as (re experience in kayak building) it tends to stay slightly flexible after it is set and less likely to cause cracking at the boundary between original and re-inforced.

Thanx for the feedback
Ron