Restoration of 2358R

[Certified Lotus]

I’m back from my travels and the first thing I did was look at my Europa Shop manual to determine why I keep missing some information that I know I had seen before. I think I have a “transition” manual (if there is such a thing) as the first 90% of the manual seems to be about the S2 and then the last 10% is about the twin Cam. Looks like the updates were added at the back? Is there just a TC and TCS manual? The one I have came with the car.

I read everyone’s comments about the “flinger”, found the actual page where it is shown (this was in the back part of my manual) and would agree that from the drawing it looks like the flinger collar does indeed goe against the rubber seal.

Then I took one of my flingers and placed it against the seal as well as putting both pieces on the axle shaft to look at the placement and function. From my own analysis (which should always be suspect) I would suggest that the flinger collar rubbing against the seal will fairly quickly wear the rubber seal out. The reason I say that is the collar of the flinger is a larger diameter than the seal fit (which is designed to fit around the axle collar) and there is no way the flinger collar with fit inside the seal without significant distortion of the seal. On the other hand, if the collar side of the flinger is against the edge of the axle at the u-joint location, the flat side of the flinger fits nicely inside the seal housing (Hopefully I’m making sense here).

You will note in the second photo the flinger actually fits inside the seal housing so the collar of the flinger will press against the seal. On the last two photos, the flinger is located on the axle collar with the flinger collar facing out and then the seal housing in place (the seal housing is pressed into the bearing carrier).

What I do not yet know, is if placing the flinger in place with the collar against the u-joint casting is will that change the overall fit of the bearings on the axle shaft as it would push it out further. (I didn’t have time to do accurate measurements).

Any input would be appreciated, although it seems many of you don’t have flingers and a few of you already are in disagreement on the positioning of the flinger.

[BDA]

There is no TC or TCS manual. There is just the TC supplement. That can make things a bit confusing, especially because I don't think they catch every difference between the TC and S2 so interpretations are occasionally in order.

It's been a long time since I put mine together. Others probably have better recollection or more recent experience, but I think the orientation in the second to last picture is correct. If memory serves, and it may not, I took the flinger as just a disc that was stuck on the half shaft. I'm not sure I took it off and just painted it with the rest of the U-joint area.

[seniorchristo]

Glen
From your photos it's not clear to me if the flinger collar actually touches the rubber part of the seal.  If it does, then I wouldn't install it that way.  On the other hand, if the flinger were turned around, would the collar be crushed against the U-joint yoke when tightening down the axle nut?  Hmmmm...

[Certified Lotus]

Chris, I need to do some accurate measuring to determine how this all fits. Weekend work!

[jbcollier]

You can see if  the photos where the bearing mounts.  Lots of room for the seal and “flinger”.

BTW, it’s a slinger, not a “flinger”.

[Roger]

My recollection is that the flinger is a pretty tight interference fit and that the curve of the lip marries up with the radius between the yoke and the shaft. It doesn't touch the seal.
I'd also point out that if the flinger fits inside the seal housing, it's only because the seal is the wrong way round. Look again at the diagram that illustrates the bearing spacer.
By the way, this is really a dust and water seal, to keep out of the bearing housing any detritus that escapes the flinger.

I expect that trial assembly will be how you decide.


Why  isn't it a flinger? The detritus doesn't care if it's flung or slung, does it?

[dakazman]

Roger
Why  isn't it a flinger? The detritus doesn't care if it's flung or slung, does it?

Lol  ,...agree. could be a flunger since its past tense.
dakazman

[Certified Lotus]

My recollection is that the flinger is a pretty tight interference fit and that the curve of the lip marries up with the radius between the yoke and the shaft. It doesn't touch the seal.
I'd also point out that if the flinger fits inside the seal housing, it's only because the seal is the wrong way round. Look again at the diagram that illustrates the bearing spacer.
By the way, this is really a dust and water seal, to keep out of the bearing housing any detritus that escapes the flinger.

I expect that trial assembly will be how you decide.

One of the great things about time is that you have the opportunity to reflect instead of just charging ahead......

I seem to be very confused about the installation of the bearing hub installation of the inner seal and the flinger. I have been thinking the seal gets installed reverse of what you are suggesting Roger. When I first went to re-install these seals I thought the full cap side faced outward as that made the most sense, but I went back and checked the photos of my disassembly of this part and low and behold the seal was mounted with the cap part against the bearing.  Odd I thought, so I went to look at the photos I had of the disassembly of the Europa race car I bought and guess what......it was the same as my road car.  Mmmmmmm.....how would this be installed incorrectly on two different cars?  The diagram in the shop manual for the hub is not very clear to me regarding the side of the seal that is installed against the bearing. Now that I’m really paying attention to this, the parts manual is a bit more clear and it seems to show the seal installed with the cap end out and the flinger collar towards the seal (which will still allow the flinger collar to rub against the rubber seal as the flinger can move on the axle).

And so I have been perplexed about the Flinger. It just didn't make sense that the flinger fit inside the seal and rubbing up against the rubber seal. Which is why I kept asking what the orientation of the flinger was on the shaft.

Now, all that being said I have noticed that in trial fits of the seal on the axle if you don't get it right, there is a spring around the seal collar that can come off.  If the seal is installed with the cap outside and the spring comes off while fitting the axle your totally screwed.

So, who has the definitive answer on this?  Please chime in.

[Roger]

I don't think your flinger should move on the axle. As I said earlier, it should be an interference fit.

[BDA]

I think Roger is right here. I'm not sure I took mine off.

[Certified Lotus]

I don't think your flinger should move on the axle. As I said earlier, it should be an interference fit.

I’m sure your right on this Roger, but my used ones move on the axle and these are difficult to find new. I’m wondering if I should use loctite on them to secure?

[Certified Lotus]

Just to add more detail for those that are wondering about all of this, the photos below show the flinger with the collar facing the seal and the flinger with the collar facing the yoke. Also shown is the hub seal with the spring around the rubber seal.

[BDA]

I've kind of lost track so if I'm repeating what you already know, I apologize.

I'm almost positive the seal should "face" outwards - in other words, the spring part of the seal should be on the bearing side of the the assy. I don't think I've ever seen a seal oriented otherwise. I'm also sure that the flinger "collar" should face the same way - toward the outside of the assy. (outside = tire side) and the "rim" should be hard against the yoke. I think you worried earlier that the collar would rub against the rubber part of the seal potentially wearing it out. I THINK if you look at the seal, the spring is over an angle edge that runs on the shaft. The rest of the seal should not contact the shaft so the collar shouldn't interfere with rubber. If your flinger does not fit tightly on the half shaft, I might consider using something to hold it there like loktite.

Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something? I admit again that it's been a long time since I had to worry about this so I'm going on memory (about the filnger) as much as general experience (about seals).

[GavinT]

G'day Certified,

Sorry for being difficult, but I’d agree with Roger; it isn’t really a slinger . . as in an “oil slinger”.
Looks more like a dust shield to me.

Below is a pic of a normal oil seal orientation.
The idea is that even with some pressure from the oil/lubricant side, the lip will maintain a seal against the shaft.

Usually, dust shield are installed as a close fit to the oil seal outer face but not rubbing on it.
It’s only really there to protect from rocks and small children damaging the seal.

I don’t know the correct orientation of the dust shield but would presume either orientation that permits installation without any pressure on the seal would be OK.
Also, your third pic shows the dust shield has a couple of dings in the outer periphery. It might be worth whacking those down flat.

I don’t think there were any fitted to my Type 54,S2.

Personally, I’d expect you could delete the dust shields altogether and save all that unsprung weight!
That’s what Colin would do. 

EDIT to add:

On reconsideration, perhaps your second pic is the correct placement for the dust shield.
I say that because the curve of the dust shield would be closer at its outer diameter than the inner diameter and therefor not encourage dust getting in.

[Certified Lotus]

Greatly appreciate everyone's input on the subjects of which way the oil seal and flingers face the rear hub.  I re-read all the insights and suggestions and pressed in the oil seals with the cap end out.  Will be installing the flingers with the collar side towards the yoke (Now that I have done that someone will appear with photos and a detailed explanation that I did it all wrong....).

Went about rethreading the end of the axle stud and the retaining nuts.  They were a bit bunged up and wanted a clean fit. 3/4-16 for anyone that wants to know.

Just to double check, the hub bearing assembly is press fit onto the axle stub. No Loctite to hold the bearings to the axle.....correct?