Author Topic: Flexible brake lines  (Read 2137 times)

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Offline Steve_Lindford

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Flexible brake lines
« on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 04:15:05 AM »
A previous owner has replaced the long brake line that runs along the rear radius arm with a metal flexible one - just on one side. The other side which possibly has the original version looks like it needs replacing - and I thought it would probably be easier to fit a flexible one too - BUT 2 people have said this is a very bad idea - as I could lose break pressure.

Here is a pic of Formula Ford with flexible hoses that are used in the whole car - so what is the problem??

Steve

Offline BDA

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 05:35:02 AM »
A hard line will obviously be stiffer and so be "more efficient" with pressure, but I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. The stainless steel braided teflon line like in your picture would work fine. Keep in mind, it's also more expensive.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 08:53:14 AM »
Hi Steve,

As BDA says, technically there isn't a problem and I'm sure you'd get past an MoT with it.

The snag, drawback, risk, however you want to phrase it, is that you're replacing a long length of metal pipe with a flexible, non metallic tubing. The stainless braided lines do tend to be better in terms of pressure flexing than conventional rubber lines, but they do move.  The general principle that most folks follow is that to improve the brake pedal feel (get it as hard as you can) is that the first thing they do is minimise the size of flexible lines, then you replace what you've got left with stainless braided lines.

Will you notice it in practice ? Like BDA, I doubt it because the rear drum brakes don't do a lot in terms of stopping the car.

Would I do it ? No, I don't think I would.  Rally cars and race cars get a lot of maintenance and the lines such as you've shown are probably checked visually every race. The line along a radius arm might get checked once every year if it's lucky !   The length along the radius arm is a very simple run of pipe and very easy to make,  probably one of the easiest bits on the car so I would replace both sides with metal.

It's fit and forget if you use Kunifer (Cunifer alt. spelling) and if you do the front flexibles at the same time it'll be done for years.
Brian
« Last Edit: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 02:18:24 PM by EuropaTC »

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 09:04:42 AM »
You can't use uncoated, SS-braided, teflon lines in a road car.  It's illegal and for a good reason.  Dirt can work its way between the steel braid and then rub against the teflon hose resulting in leaks/failure.  Race cars are regularly overhauled and brake lines are just another consumable that gets changed on a regular basis.  You can use coated, SS-braided, teflon lines with their matching fittings.  I can't see why you would use them as main brake lines though.  They are many times more expensive and quite a bit bulkier as well.  Flex lines, sure, just make sure it is the coated stuff.

Offline buzzer

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 09:12:18 AM »
In the UK they are ok for the MOT and not illegal (well not found anything about them being illegal). never had a problem. Just like anything else look after them. You can if you like cover them with wiring harness spiral.
Dave,

Other cars. Westfield SEiW. BMW E90 Alpina D3. BMW 325 E30 convertible and Range Rover CSK

Offline 4129R

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 01:26:39 PM »
When I got the rear brake conversion kit from Banks, it came with the long replacement braided hoses.

I think that is a good enough recommendation for me.

Alex in Norfolk.

Offline BDA

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2016, 07:24:11 PM »
Well, you all have pointed out real complexities that I didn't consider in my original answer. In the US, stuff like this is supposed to be DOT approved. You can buy pre-made stainless steel braided teflon brake hoses that are DOT approved (I believe they have a DOT label on them). I have no idea what the regulations are in the UK, but I would doubt that if they were found, ss teflon lines you made would be MOT approved if for no other reason than simply because they wouldn't have a way to verify that they were made (and tested) properly. Whether they would ever be found is another issue. I've made brake lines for race and street cars and never had a problem, but as John pointed out, there may be other risks (that I was unaware of).

I'm not sure why the PO made up an expensive braided line when a less expensive hard line might have been just as easy. I never had to work on that line with the body on the car so I don't know how much more difficult one installation would be than the other. I could only think that for some reason, the braided hose would be easier but I'm not sure how.

For the record, for my car, I made up my own stainless steel braided teflon flex lines and where flex lines were not needed, I used hard lines so the line in question on my car is a hard line. Obviously, I trust my brake lines. I can only imagine that Richard's are at least as good. I trust my lines so I would have no trouble trusting Richard's. Having said that, I think a hard line is a better option.

We've only obliquely addressed the legal liability issue! Yikes!!! I'm not sure I want to go there!

Offline Steve_Lindford

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #7 on: Thursday,September 22, 2016, 06:16:45 AM »
Not my Formula Ford - by the way. Bearing in mind most people I know in racing circles run things to fine tolerances and want the best and most efficient components - then that is good enough for me. At the moment I have the front jacked up - but when I get the back jacked - I still think that it will be easier to fit a flexible hose - than remove the old one in one piece and be able to make a cunifer 'solid' one to match.

The whole job looks awkward to me - even though I have quite small hands...

Steve

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,September 22, 2016, 07:03:34 AM »
If you are going to fit the standard bare SS braided brake hose, make sure it is properly secured.  Vibration makes a loose SS braided hose into one of the best cut off saws known to man.

Offline BDA

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #9 on: Thursday,September 22, 2016, 07:28:54 AM »
 :I-agree:

Offline Steve_Lindford

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Re: Flexible brake lines
« Reply #10 on: Thursday,September 22, 2016, 12:34:26 PM »
I think the SS ones are plastic coated - but if I go down that route - I will secure them properly.

Thanks for info - I will be back on here for info on other STUFF for sure...