New Wheels

[LeftAngle]

Hey Jannik:

I've attempted to reply to this thread several times, but so far, no luck.  I wanted to thank you for that information... It's helped me focus in on what the car may end up looking like.  I'm looking for foam that I can use to fashion the sides.  I won'd do the fiberglassing, but I'll form the molds so I'll be sure to end up with what I want.

Thanks again... I've kept it short... Hope it posts.

Yay.. It posted, but I hadn't noticed my original posted as well.  I accidentally erased it.  In it, I mentioned I needed to clean my garage and posted a photo of the mess.  Here it is again:

[LeftAngle]

After setting the rear wheels in place, I'm kind of in agreement with Mike in that 17" is too large on an S2 Europa.  That being said, I had painted the outer rim of the wheels I'm using because the woman who had them, evidently parked by "feel" and liked her BMW as close to the curb as possible.  The paint covered the dings and gouges, but didn't do anything for the aesthetics.

Today, I decided to try another tactic.  The spare tire in my Lotus was original, and when I pulled it out to work on the front end, I realized, under all the crud, was a white wall.  Whitewall tires of the 1960s and 70s were popular, but they were "narrow", as opposed to the wide whitewalls of the 1950s.  The spare's was not much more than 1/4" wide...

Hmm, I thought.    I pulled the new tire out, removed the white and taped up the first step in the 17" wheel.  I painted it black (Dip-It) and left the edge of the rim, which is about 1/4" wide exposed.

I know I'll have to have the wheels polished now, but what I've accomplished is to visually turn the 17" wheel into a 15" wheel and added a "Chrome" wall to my tire.

The one on the left is the wide whitewall and the one on the right is the narrow Chromewall.  What's the verdict amongst ya'll?

[EuropaTC]

Ok, you probably won't like what I'm about to write but you did ask for opinions.....   

If you've decided that 17" doesn't look right, then a bit of paint isn't going to change your basic unease with the wheel size no matter how cleverly it's applied.  Add in the fact you're going to need adapters to fit a 5 stud wheel to a 4 stud hub and the costs are rising. Which is fine if you like the end result, but I'm sensing you're hesitant ?

Without wishing to hijack the thread, one of my winter projects is to fit 15x6" wheels to my car as an alternative to the 13x5" Cosmics, but I want to be able to run either wheel set as I think for our village show I'll take it looking "period" with the Cosmics. So far I've replaced the wheel studs with 12mm ones and test fitted a 15x6" wheels front & rear with 195 & 205 tyres. The diameters are fractionally smaller at the front but the extra 1" width hits the wheel arch on full lock and needs a recess molding in both arches. (hence a winter project)

I think if I were you and still wanting to check out these wheels, I'd knock out enough wheel studs to allow you to "bolt" the wheels in place front & rear and see exactly what sort of clearances you'll end up with.  It should be ok to drop the car's weight on them even if you've only got a single stud holding the wheels in place and then you'll have a much better idea of the end result and if it's worth pursuing.  I used photoshop on my car with several wheel patterns but you've got the wheels and can't beat real life !

Brian

[LeftAngle]

Hi Brian:

I "do" like what you have to say and the only thing about the wheel size I'm hesitant about is the aesthetics.  My wife loves the look, but I'm wondering if they may be a bit too "in your face".  I'm sorry I don't have the wheel mounted to show you.  The black strip is Dip-It, a rubber compound that matches the texture of the tire and if I have the wheel's lip highly polished, it will certainly be unique.


The car will be for show and the trend has been moving consistently toward larger wheels, so by the time the car i ready, it may not be an issue.   Oversized wheels I thought looked ridiculous a few years ago, look pretty good to me now, so time will tell. 


The rear wheel adaptors are installed, but the car's on jacks in the garage so the wheel hangs a bit, but here's  shots with each of the options installed .  I'm cleaning and painting the engine compartment, glassing the side vents and shaping the body at the moment, so pardon the mess. 

As on yours, it's the fronts that will be tricky.  Adaptors won't work because the center of the wheel needs to be as close to the rotational centerline as possible.   And unless someone can identify a compatible hub for me, I'll be having one milled from 7075T6 aluminum.  That'll be expensive, but the wheels and 4 tires cost me well under $500, so I'll still be ahead. 

I'll need to get smaller front tires and, it looks like I'll have to get the wheels polished, so I may not end up with a bargain, but 5 studs will allow me to add larger brakes, have a larger selection of (and less expensive) future wheel options and set my mind at ease... Having lost a right front wheel from a 4 stud Triumph has made me a believer in overkill.

[EuropaTC]

Hi again.

I dont think you need to get a complete blank hub milled, you can already buy undrilled hubs over here and put in whatever studs you want to. I have no affiliation with this dealer, but it will give you an idea of what's available.

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/alloyhubs.html&xsl=product.xsl

I fitted alloy hubs like this to a Marcos I once owned because the rear axle had Ford spacing and the front Triumph and I wanted to get all 4 the same, hence I bought some alloy hubs with Ford PCD's.

I appreciate the wheel is on full droop, but boy does it look big !  I think I recall you saying the overall diameter was the same, what is it out of interest ? My 15" wheels with 205 tyres came in at around 22" IIRC, which is roughly the same as the OEM 13"x185/70's ? (a highly technical comparison, I stood them alongside each other on the garage floor and put a spirit level across them ! )

Brian

[LeftAngle]

Hey, again...

You recall the stock overall dimension correctly.  I, on the other hand, had initially measured the new wheels and tire diameter as 1" larger, when in fact, after everything's been removed and I can get an accurate measurement, they're 1.5" larger (23.5").  I suspect I'll end up replacing these with 15s, but for now, to keep the wife sub-nuclear, I'll continue fitting the BBS wheels, build the body work around them closer and deal with replacements later:)

Thank you for the link to Canley Classics.  I've been trying to find something every time I sit down in front of the computer.  I'll check them out and keep the forum informed of what I find out.

Bruce

[EuropaTC]

I suspect I'll end up replacing these with 15s, but for now, to keep the wife sub-nuclear, I'll continue fitting the BBS wheels, build the body work around them closer and deal with replacements later:)

 

I suspect I'll have a similar problem with my proposed MGF wheels. They're "ok" and I could live with them but if I decide 15" is a long term option then I reckon I'd prefer 15" minilites or Cosmics to retain a period look to the car but still get the benefit from modern rubber.   

But....   like you, these wheels cost me £120 for 4 wheels plus tyres, two of which were new so it really was a no-brainer. To get 4 new wheels and tyres would have been well north of £600, which is too much of a gamble when I might not like how they ride with the Lotus suspension.   And like you, if I swop later I can always sell the first set of wheels and get back what I paid. 

But that's "man-maths" and not something the ladies understand......

As far as alloy hubs go, they were very popular here a few years ago when the majority of kit cars used Triumph front suspension and people wanted to get the same PCD all round. The other place you could try is someone like Richard at Europa Engineering because his cars are definitely modifications of the Europa theme and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he's fitted 5 stud wheels in the past - look at this one he had as a racer.....

Brian

[LeftAngle]

If I had the money, I'd be negotiating for this RHD car >http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C304732<, but... Alas, I have to make do with the one I've got.  When it was first listed, I considered it, but I did the $ conversion, & reality kicked in:) Chances are, I'll spend all of what it cost on mine, but it'll be spread out so the pain can be amortized:). 

I sent Canley an email to find out if they can sell me an un-drilled hub >http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/alloyhubs.html&xsl=product.xsl<.

 They have an entire alloy brake setup for a Spitfire GT6 >http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/4potbrakes.html&xsl=product.xsl< which, IIRC, fits the S2 .  Along with their stainless dust shield, this would be an almost complete and perfect setup for the front... IF I can get that blank hub.

There's also an adjustable upper wishbone that may or may not fit... Almost one-stop-shopping!  Thanks again for that link.  I was up all night going through it instead of working on the car. 

Off-topic, but the Spitfire isn't as popular over here as the TR4s & 6s.  I had two 1500s up until 1969.  One to drive and one for spares.  I loved that car.   Thanks again Brian.

Bruce

[EuropaTC]

Hi again Bruce,

That brake kit looks good considering what you get, although I'm not convinced the Europa front brakes are a weak point. But the fact that something isn't essential has never stopped me from buying new sparkly toys before

Be wary of buying suspension parts though, the Europa is oddball and I think I'd stick to the usual suspects for stuff like that. I have Spyder Engineering's front tubular wishbones and adjustable lower rear links on my car which were expensive at the time (1990s) but have been well worth the money.

Brian
 

[LeftAngle]

Hey Brian:

Thanks for that heads up.  It's been a while since I've messed around with cars.  After college, the interest was in sailing, skiing... And one more word starting with "s"... I think it was... Ya, that's it... Sleeping.

The new wheels and tires are 15 lbs heavier than stock, so I think upgrading the brakes may be a good idea.  The original discs had to fit inside 13" rims and I'll bet the Lotus engineers saw that as a limitation.  Eventually, I'd like to put discs on all 4 corners, so until then, the drums will have to take up any slack.  Thanks again for dropping Spyder Engineering's name.

I'll have to get an updated list of compatible parts and sources.   

Bruce                                                               

[Serge]

You can also get alloy hubs from merlin motorsport, they sell them in various PCDs and also undrilled.

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/ALLOY-HUBS-&-BEARINGS-Alloy-Hubs/c415_416/index.html


Serge

[LeftAngle]

Thanks Serge:

You know... It may be easier if I just moved to the UK for a year:)