All brakes are engaged

[bozman]

Hey everyone, this is my first of what will be many posts, I am sure. I'll post a little write up on how I came into possession of my S2 Type 54 in another post, but right now I need help with the brakes.

All 4 brakes are nearly locked up, as if they are all engaged. I just received the Europa from the port last week (shipped from Puerto Rico to Philly), and it appears to have happened during transit, as the brakes were not locked up before I picked it up I am told. The wheels can still be turned, but it is nearly impossible to push it around the garage.

Part of me thought it was the parking brake/lever etc that is binding, but doesn't that only affect the rear drums?

I jacked up each wheel  individually, and they are all difficult to spin, some more the others, and with 1 or 2 borderline impossible.

[BDA]

  bozman!!

The parking brake only acts on the leading rear brake shoe so that wouldn't affect your front wheels.

Is your m/c piston retracting when you take pressure off the pedal? It's an outside shot but it's happened to me: check that your brake pedal isn't getting hung up on the steering column. If it is, you can probably bend it enough by hand to get it off. After that, you might want to check that the fluid is flowing by bleeding the brakes and then check the operation of the calipers and wheel cylinders.

Good luck! Post some pictures and tell us your plans for your car!

[rascott]

the calipers could be binding, especially if it has sat for some years, like mine had.
the rebuild kits are cheap, but i think you have to get good at it, like halfway thru the second one.
sounds like you should look inside the drums...........
love a good project.

[EuropaTC]

I'm with BDA on the master cylinder or, if the car has servo assistance (Boosters in the US    ) then that's another possible culprit assuming the car did roll freely before the transportation process started.

It could be rust on discs, etc, but to get it to the state of locking the rear drums you need some serious rusting as it's relatively dry inside. But in terms of the master cylinder you only need a small amount of movement to start pressure building and that might just be enough.  On servos, I used to get the internal valves on mine sticking over winter storage in a dry garage so it's a definite possibility on a 3 month trip.

Whatever the reason it sounds like a complete overhaul is first job on the list !

Brian
 

[Gmg31]

How old is the fluid?  Has it come from or come to a humid climate, if there was water in the fluid and you have moved to a warmer climate it may have expanded.   I think I would drain the fluid completely first, release all the pressure and see if she rolls with all the nipples open.

[EuropatcSPECIAL]

  Welcome Bozman. It looks like you already have enough possibilities to get on with. Keep us posted
all the best
Stuart

 

[jbcollier]

Old car, old brakes, suspect hydraulics, etc.  Completely strip the brake system, overhaul or replace components as required.  Anything else is just foolish on a 40+ year old car.

[Grumblebuns]

How old is the fluid?  Has it come from or come to a humid climate, if there was water in the fluid and you have moved to a warmer climate it may have expanded.   I think I would drain the fluid completely first, release all the pressure and see if she rolls with all the nipples open.

I agree with Gmg31 on opening the bleeders to release any residual fluid pressure. I'm wondering if the transport company kept the brakes applied during transport ( a 2x4 on the brake pedal) and the MC hasn't fully retracted on release.

[bozman]

How old is the fluid?  Has it come from or come to a humid climate, if there was water in the fluid and you have moved to a warmer climate it may have expanded.   I think I would drain the fluid completely first, release all the pressure and see if she rolls with all the nipples open.

I think this is where I will start, then from there I can repair/replace as necessary.

Thank you everyone!!

[StrawberryCheesecake]

If the brakes were a bit sticky and someone pushed the pedal while the car was being moved around, it could well have caused the brakes to lock up. This could be because the master cylinder is stuck and not retracting properly, or because the brakes are all stuck with misuse.

As a first step I'd cut the flexi hoses (one at a time and with drip trays handy). If the car has been stood a long time you'll want to replace them anyway. That should solve the problem if it's down to residual fluid pressure.

Sounds like an interesting tale behind this one... best of luck with it.

[CCM911]

Get in touch with RD ENterprises.  Purchase four new soft brake lines, 2 Caliper rebuild kits, 2 rear wheel brake cylinders, and a master cylinder rebuild kit.  Shouls be under $125 and you'll need to do it anyway.

I just did the same to mine, and it is not that big a deal.  Use a crowsfoot for the rear lines.

jbcollier is correct.  Do it once and do it right.

[4129R]

Take care when cleaning up the calipers, there may be asbestos dust stuck on the calipers. Asbestos was cheap so Chunky probably used the cheap pads option.

I have just cleaned up 2 pairs of calipers, and had to force the pistons back when they were bolted to the front hub. I put the caliper on with no pads, and forced the pistons back with a 3ft case opener/gemmy. If they don't work properly, they will be rebuilt. The kits are cheap and easily available on a very well known Internet auction site.

[bozman]

Such great advice.  I ordered all the rebuild kits etc. and they should be arriving for some weekend fun.  I'll keep you all posted.

I only remember the Europa ever sitting in the garage "needing work" when I was a kid.  I must remember that the real purpose of having this car, besides the nostalgia, is to actually drive it.  And in order to do that, I need to order the parts, not just "think about ordering" them!

Thank you all!

[jbcollier]

Don't rebuild the rear wheel cylinders.  They are dirt cheap new.  Cup size varies by model so measure what you have and order accordingly.

Remove and disassemble the brake m/c before ordering parts.  Most are corroded and not rebuildable without sleeving.  Use HOT water when removing the m/c resevior as it is easily cracked.

[BDA]

John's right about all that (as usual). I rebuilt mine but they didn't work. The bores looked fine, and there shouldn't have been a problem. Just get new.

The few times I've tried to rebuild master cylinders, I've had spotty results. I had mine rebuilt (with sleeves) at White Post (for US folks) at http://whitepost.com. I assume there are similar places on the other side of the pond.