door hinges

[grnicholson]

Hi All

I had the problem with door sag, which had been ignored by the previous owner, on my 1971 Europa.  I dosed up with a top of the range penetrating fluid and managed to get the locking nut off - the other decided not to play despite numerous applications of fluid.

After days of fluid, and much consideration (and a couple of beers), I drilled a small dent in the right hand side of the nut and pulled out the big guns, a pneumatic hammer drill.  With a sharpened tool bit in the dent I gave it 2 second burst and - the earth moved!!  Piece of cake!

Now all I need to do shim the hinge to give the correct closure.

Richard in sunny Spain

[BDA]

Good work!   

If you are interested in hinge options, r.d. (www.rdent.com) has the stock hinge setup in stainless and Richard at Banks (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php) has a brass hinge setup that is unique and allows you to take the door off without disturbing the adjustment other than the height. I can't compare them as I've only dealt with Richard's hinges. I think they're both a challenge to adjust properly unless you have a lot of experience with them.

[kiwiokie]

If I understand the factory hinge design the weight of the door rests on the lowest washer and the bobbin bonded into the lower door sill.  Since this is a metal washer that grinds on the metal bobbin would it not make more sense to use a Teflon washer instead?  Also the shop manual recommends vertical spacing is achieved by stacking additional abrasive washers under the door.  Are these available to buy individually or do most folks just stack a regular washer underneath?

[BDA]

Abrasive washers came with my SS hinge kit from r.d. I would expect you'd be able to get more from them.

Sorry I can't help you with how the stock hinges work.

[jbcollier]

Abrasive washer are easily made using sandpaper.  Use hole punches and then glue two pieces together back to back.

[EuropaTC]

If I understand the factory hinge design the weight of the door rests on the lowest washer and the bobbin bonded into the lower door sill.  Since this is a metal washer that grinds on the metal bobbin would it not make more sense to use a Teflon washer instead?  Also the shop manual recommends vertical spacing is achieved by stacking additional abrasive washers under the door.  Are these available to buy individually or do most folks just stack a regular washer underneath?

I've got stainless washers on my doors and the bottom one which bears on the bobbin in the door shut is home made from thin nylon sheet. I suspect any plastic would do because there's not a heavy weight bearing on it. However, the base of the hinge pin bush is modified to stop it rotating in the door.

I don't have paper abrasive washers on my car because, well, in the UK they get wet. I don't know if the OEM ones were paper based but when I took them off they weren't doing anything useful.

You do need to ensure that the top & bottom door pin bushes are fixed to the door assembly so that the door rotates on the pin when you open it, hence the abrasive washers. You can do this in several ways - lock or star (?) washers, dot punch a plain washer, the choice is yours. I wouldn't use a plain washer though just in case it slips over time and the door goes out of adjustment.

Brian

[StrawberryCheesecake]

Are the abrasive washers so that you get the right level of resistance in the hinges? Surely that's a recipe for door drop, over time - a self-eroding spacer?

[Roger]

The abrasive washers are supposed to fit either side of the holes in the door, abrasive side inward, to stop the door pivot  bush sliding around. They should have no movement relative to the door.

[Grumblebuns]

You can use heavy duty outdoor use abrasive anti-slip tape in place of regular sandpaper. The strips are adhesive backed and used back to back, work well as a friction enhancer for the stock door hinge system.

If I understand the system, the only thing keeping the door in alignment on the stock system is the sandpaper under the washers and how much force you can apply to tighten the nuts on the hinge bush. Over time, the sandpaper will wear out and allow the bush to loosen and the door to sag.

I took some pictures during my last door adjustment.
Pic 1 is "as found" lower bush assembly
Pic 2 is with all of the nuts and washers out of the way showing just the bush
Pic 3 is with the lower bush reassembled with abrasive anti slip tape
Pic 4 is the abrasive anti slip tape
Pic 5 is picture of the tape installed

[Roger]

I found that the supplied washers were a sloppy fit round the spindles, and also too small in o/d to grip well on the door.
I bought some with larger o/d and a good fit on the spindles, then bonded coarse emery cloth to them. They grip well and tight, so there's no movement and so they're  unlikely to wear out.

[4129R]

With 12 doors to replace hinges on, I decided to try to find the quickest way of removing the old 1/2" rusted steel bars.

I drilled from below the sill into the threaded bottom of the bar, from 7mm at 0.5mm intervals up to 12mm, and then the bar either twists out, or you can hit the spacer washers between the sill and the door with a hammer and chisel, and the washer cuts through the 0.5mm of bar left quite easily.

Then to get the top bar out, I drilled through the bar twice mid door at about a 30mm gap, with holes up to 12mm, to get a 42mm gap in the bar, and then eased the top bar down out of the top bush.

The get the fittings out of the square holes in the top and bottom of the door, I had to use an angle grinder to cut the rusted fitting down to pass through the hole into the door. The two nuts were rusted so badly, even after they were out of the door and in a bench vice, I could still not undo them with a socket and 3ft bar.

This method is quite quick. I have done 2 doors in less than 1 day, and no need for any hacksaw blade and damaged knuckles.

Alex in Norfolk.

[Runningwild]

After the hinges are done , what type of lubrication do you use on the hinges before mounting the door panel?

[4129R]

I am fitting the new style of Banks hinges which are brass and need no lubrication.

[jbcollier]

Having overhauled more than enough SU and Zeinth carbs in my day, I can assure you that brass wears!

[4129R]

The hinges on 4259R were particularly badly rusted with no chance of pulling them down.

I started drilling the 1/2" bar half way up the door, and at the bottom above the nuts, with a 2.5mm drill, up to a 10mm drill, then there was a big enough hole to break the bar away.

Then I drilled the two nuts up to 12mm, and they fell apart in half.

You have to be careful not to snap the drill bits. I got through plenty.

If the hole is too far to one side, turn the bar 90 degrees so the large bit is away from you, and drill into the flat surface on the large bit left.

When the nuts are snapped in half, the bottom of the door becomes loose around the rusted bar.

Get Mole grips on the upper part which is usually not rusted, and just loosen it back and forth until it drops down. The top of the door is now free.

Then lift the top out carefully, and then lift the door off the remainder of the bottom bar and nuts.

When the door is off, you can easily get to the stub of the 1/2" bar in the bottom sill, and either cut it with a grinder flush, and then carefully knock it in to the sill, or if too badly stuck, centre punch the stub and drill until enough is drilled away to knock down.

You need a plentiful supply of drill bits 2.5mm to 10mm, about 30-40 mins per door, and a steady hand.

The hardest bit is getting the 2.5mm drill started on the round bar (centre punch a dent) then the bar is quite soft and easily drilled.