Author Topic: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild  (Read 10185 times)

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Offline BDA

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #30 on: Sunday,December 27, 2015, 03:27:02 PM »
Glad you got it. Now that I see the situation in your picture, I think in my case, I used a very thin walled box-end wrench that fits there.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #31 on: Sunday,December 27, 2015, 11:11:20 PM »
Swan-neck ring spanner ? If that's only a UK description I mean one like this....

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #32 on: Monday,December 28, 2015, 08:57:46 AM »
Nowe I get why they have the offset!  Thanks!

Trust me, I learned to speak "English", as opposed to "American" due to the sheer volume of UK Automotive/Motorcycle publications I read.  Unfortunately, America has no good car or motorcycle magazines, other than "Motorcycle CLassics". 

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #33 on: Monday,January 04, 2016, 07:36:14 AM »
OK, master cylinder has been rebuilt/re-installed, and now it is time to move to the rear of the car.  New rear wheel cylinders have been installed.  Time to replace the soft lines in the rear.

Do I have to drop the rear trailing arms to gain access?  It seems like they are jammed in such a small space that getting a wrench in there would be impossible.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #34 on: Monday,January 04, 2016, 09:01:31 AM »
If you mean the short flexible hoses conveniently situated between the chassis & body such that you can see them but need skinny, teenage arms to touch them,  then yep, that's the way I would tackle the job. 

It is possible to do the job with the arm in place but if they've been in place for a few years then I think I'd just drop the arm and cut the hoses to let the arm drop away completely.  That will give you lots of clearance to get at either end and if they've rusted in place it will give you better leverage.  You'll also get a better view of the hard brake lines and see if they are rusting or also need replacement.

As I said it's also possible to do without removing the arm.  I've done that way but everything was relatively new because I was only swapping the (recent) rubber hoses for stainless braided ones so the nuts undid easily with stubby spanners.

Brian

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #35 on: Monday,January 04, 2016, 10:27:20 AM »
I know my stuff is not rusty, but my fat stubby Slovak hands will not fit in that small area in a million years!  LOL.

I will report back on how I did it when completed.  In the meantime, I may need several beers to help me contemplate the correct course of action.

Offline 3929R

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #36 on: Thursday,January 07, 2016, 12:17:17 PM »
I replaced my original rear flex hoses without removing the trailing arms. It requires a crowsfoot flare nut wrench and some extensions on the socket. I don't remember it being too much of a pain in the arse but it's been a few years since I did it and I've relatively slim arms.

Before I did it I combed through the Yahoo group archives. Here are the notes/posts I copied. These are all quotes from other owners, some of whom took the arms off, some who didn't-

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-sae-crowfoot-flarenut-wrench-set-93137.html

http://ratropa.com/photos.html {scroll down on page} ALSO with some judiciously-applied penetrant to rusty/stubborn fittings, and a crows-foot flare wrench/socket on a long extension, one can finesse the female tubing fittings and the lock nuts loose. Installation of the new parts is a much easier task...  ALSO  Before you buy new tools, see if you can loosen the connections (without damaging the hard lines) with the tools you already have.  If you can't, then you'll know what tools will get the job done. I was able to loosen and tighten the connections from the comfort of the wheel well. And didn't need to dismantle any of the suspension.

After a couple weeks delay, I finally got the rear SS lines on today.  Miraculously, I didn't even unbolt the swing arm or shock. I jacked the rear end up so the tires were about 6 inches off the ground and then took them off so I could get access up the swing arm. The upper hose mount was fairly easy to get at from underneath. For the lower mount, I positioned the wrenches on the connections while looking through the fender down the swing arm.  I then handed them off to my dad who was laying down underneath (and couldn't see the connections). Getting the SS lines on was actually easier than taking them off (BTDT factor).  I was able to get the second side done nearly all by myself. It took about 3 hours from start to finish and that included dinner in the middle. The brakes definitely feel more firm.

Yes you can change them without removing the swing arms. But you need 1/4 inch drive crowsfoot sockets of the right size to get on to the nuts holding the hoses onto the brackets. And extension arms. Aggravating, frustrating, slow, but possible.

You should be able to drop the front of the radius arm down after you pull the long bolt out - you do not have to pull the bolt out of the radius arm, just enough to have the end of the bolt clear the hole in the rubber bushing - the rubber bushing is bolted to the frame.
There are washers between the inside face of the radius arm and the rubber bushing - keep track of how many there are - the thicknes of these washers sets the rear toe-in.
You should be able to access the hydraulic line mounting point when you lower the radius arm.

I replaced both sides with stainless steel and it was a bit of a pain but not too bad on a 72 TC. I had to pound out the roll pins and disconnect the axle shaft from the drive spline. From there I was able to rotate the rear link down and get a wrench on the brake lines. It went relatively fast, maybe two hours. Make sure you use two wrenches, one to hold and one to turn.   ALSO  Allowing the radius arm and hub assembly to drop down a bit makes all the difference.

On my S2 I have removed the entire rear trailing arm(and parts therein) a couple of times. I jacked the rear up and accessed the trailing arm from below, doing the rear trailing arm mount bolt first, then the brake lines with the trailing arm dangling. With the rear jacked up, the brake line did not leak a whole lot of fluid either.

The car is on jack stands, but I managed to get to the flexible hose with the rear part of the trailing arm unbolted and lowered to the floor. I can see now, that I will probably have to raise the car further up to be able to assemble properly again, but at least that will not be a problem before the next weekend...

To remove existing lines you should use a flare-nut wrench. I think you will need a 3/8 and 7/16.
Mark
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #37 on: Friday,January 08, 2016, 01:53:44 PM »
Well, I went and bought the Crows foot "sockets", so I guess I'll try again this weekend.

Thanks for all the info, Mark!

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #38 on: Friday,February 05, 2016, 08:29:23 AM »
The crows foot socket, coupled with a two foot extension made for easy removal of the brake lines.  I use the crows foot to get the flare nut loose.  Then I stick my hand in the well and completely remove the flare nut.  Then, I use a deep well 9/16th regular socket to remove the nut securing the brake line to the mounting tab.  Much easier than dropping the arms.

Offline BDA

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #39 on: Friday,February 05, 2016, 09:13:58 AM »
Excellent! Glad you got it worked out!  :beerchug:

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #40 on: Monday,April 18, 2016, 06:53:51 AM »
OK, time to put in the new rear lines.  I lost one of the original nuts used to secure the soft-line to the arm.  I went and bout some replacements, thinking it would be nice to replace thenm all.  But when I get them home, I realized that the new nuts were a bit thicker then the originals.  Is this OK?  Or will the thicker nuts interfere with the seating of the flare nut on the hard-to-soft line hook-up?

Sorry for all the questions.  I am just loking along here with this re-commission.

Offline BDA

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #41 on: Monday,April 18, 2016, 08:17:52 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to. Are you talking about the union that screws between the hard line and the flexible line? The important thing there is that the threads match (obviously), and the profile of the 'nose' of the union be the same as the original one. I think the usual arrangement is for a bubble flare in the hard line so the union would be dished a bit to mate up with it. I would say that the length is important, but I think they are only likely to be longer than you need rather than too short. I don't think that a little extra length there will be a problem.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #42 on: Monday,April 18, 2016, 09:25:13 AM »
The nuts need to be thin so they allow the hydraulic fittings to fully seat. "Half-nuts" or "jam-nuts" are readily available from nut and bolt, and industrial suppliers.

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #43 on: Monday,April 18, 2016, 10:55:06 AM »
Exactly!  So it is a "jam nut" I am looking for?

Thanks!!!

Offline CCM911

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Re: TCS - Master Cylinder Rebuild
« Reply #44 on: Monday,May 09, 2016, 08:03:21 AM »
Can one of you point me in the right direction as to where I can pick up some Jam Nuts for the rear brake soft lines on my car?  I need a US suppilier.

Yes, my project has stalled, so I really need to get back into it, and finishing the brakes would be a great milestone.

Thanks.