Heresy? Audi Bits / other options?

[StrawberryCheesecake]

I have a couple of old Audis as runabout/smokers. A lot of the FWD Audis have the engine in front, gearbox behind layout that the Europa needs in its mid engined setup. I wondered if anyone has ever looked into it, in terms of whether the overall dimensions make sense.

There are a lot of engine options available to fit those Audi gearboxes - e.g.

2.0 16v from 90s Audis or Mk3 Golf
1.8 20v - NA or Turbo form.

VR6 / V6 lumps (a bit on the heavy side)

A lot of the later Audi models have ally engine blocks, rather than the cast iron block, ally head on the 90s ones.

Any knowledge about?

[BDA]

If anyone has, Richard at Banks has. Give him a call and let us know what he says!

[EuropaTC]

like this one ?  1.8 Audi engine ?

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C653279

My wife is on her second TT and I must say I quite like the Audi engineering. The first was a 1.8, the latest the 2.0TFSI and considering the power they develop they are very smooth engines.

There are a few Audi engined Elise S1's kicking about, that was one alternative to the K series when it started blowing gaskets. I don't know how many were made but the thought of a very reliable 225bhp compared with the 190 that came from a fairly highly tuned K series was attractive. 

Brian

[StrawberryCheesecake]

I've seen that one on Facebook - didn't realise it was for sale, and didn't realise it had the audi 20vT lump in it. I had assumed it was a Toyota engine, with the lotus engine cover, although I did notice the VAG expansion tank.

Shame you can't see the gearbox/driveshafts to see what's been done there.

The way he's got it sitting up at the back would suggest that the engine is a bit too tall for it. Maybe needs to sit lower / have a shallower sump.

[BDA]

That S2 with the Audi motor and tranny is beautiful!! There's something to aspire to, Strawberry!

[Clifton]

I originally looked into the V8 Audi ABH and V6 diesel transmission before going with a Toyota V6 (2GR).  I believe Europe got the ABZ V8. The V6's use iron blocks, the newer ones might be aluminum but the older ones are a but heavy. The 4.2 V8's make around 320hp and gobs of torque. The V6 diesel trans, not available in the US but is in Europe will handle quite a bit of torque, the non diesel front wheel drive trans will not take too much torque. I know the V8 will fit length and width wise.

[StrawberryCheesecake]

I was thinking more of the 4-pots but yes there are v8 options too.

I measured the spare gearbox I have lying in the barn. It's about 2ft long from front of bell housing to the back of the box. It's about a foot wide at the driveshafts. The shift rod is right at the back, so about as far from the gear lever as you could possibly get, in a RWD rear gearbox install. This one is rod change. I'm not sure if some of the later cars are cable change. I suspect not but will check.

[BDA]

I would think the more important dimension is where the half shafts would end up when the engine and tranny are installed. I would try to get the wheels into the current wheel wells. I'm thinking that having longer radius arm would be preferable to a shorter one because there would be less bump steer (somebody should check me on this, I'm just trying to envision 3D geometry) but there isn't a whole lot of car left for the wheel well to be moved further back so getting the wheels in the current wheel wells seems like the best plan.

[Clifton]

I know the V8 is short enough for thefront the the engine to end at about the same place as the Renault engine. I never measured the trans but I don't think it would be off by much if any.  I placed my drive train forward  1" from centerline for better weight distribution and am running the CV's at only 5.5*. A front wheel drive trans has a longer axle so 7* should give maybe 2" to work with either way. If space is a concern the V6 would be the shortest. a V8 isn't much longer than a straight 4.  This wouldn't be an  easy swap.

[BDA]

Sounds like a killer!!! Whatever you do, let us know! 

[StrawberryCheesecake]

I know the V8 is short enough for thefront the the engine to end at about the same place as the Renault engine. I never measured the trans but I don't think it would be off by much if any.  I placed my drive train forward  1" from centerline for better weight distribution and am running the CV's at only 5.5*. A front wheel drive trans has a longer axle so 7* should give maybe 2" to work with either way. If space is a concern the V6 would be the shortest. a V8 isn't much longer than a straight 4.  This wouldn't be an  easy swap.

I thought it might be width where the space was tight in the bay, rather than length. I guess anything is possible if you're prepared to move metal around though.

[Rosco5000]

I have just bought a B5 VW Passat transaxle (1998-2005 is the B5 generation) to complete my swap, these are newer FWD VW models but the engine is longitudinal like the Audi A4.  I am bolting it up to a 2.0 Duratec and going to work it into the back of my S2 Europa.  Dimensionally the transaxle is very small, the shifter exits the housing in a nice spot, so the adaptation should be straight forward and they are the same base transaxle as a Porsche Boxter so we know they fit like in 7UpJohn's car.  Nice thing is these transaxles are tough, lots of guys are using them in kit cars with small block chev and fords in front of them, supposedly good to about 300 ft/lbs of torque.   For those of you over in Europe there are some even better gear ratios available if you go for the diesel transaxles and would work very nicely in one our light cars with a high revving 4 banger.  If you are looking for the new 5 spd family of VAG transaxles search for 012 or 01W (same or similar base transaxle as the Porsche Boxter) or the older ones mentioned by the original poster are 016 transaxles which are very good candidates as well just finding low mileage ones are harder to find.  The other interesting thing is in Europe there was a V8 Audi A6 with a front wheel drive option and a 6 speed, it would be interesting if you someone would find one of those and swap it into an Europa.  I just haven't research whether the gear ratios would work in our cars with the smaller diameter rims but I think it is good because they usually gear V8s a lot lower than the 4 cylinder versions of the transaxles.

[StrawberryCheesecake]

I have just bought a B5 VW Passat transaxle (1998-2005 is the B5 generation) to complete my swap, these are newer FWD VW models but the engine is longitudinal like the Audi A4.  I am bolting it up to a 2.0 Duratec and going to work it into the back of my S2 Europa.  Dimensionally the transaxle is very small, the shifter exits the housing in a nice spot, so the adaptation should be straight forward and they are the same base transaxle as a Porsche Boxter so we know they fit like in 7UpJohn's car.  Nice thing is these transaxles are tough, lots of guys are using them in kit cars with small block chev and fords in front of them, supposedly good to about 300 ft/lbs of torque.   For those of you over in Europe there are some even better gear ratios available if you go for the diesel transaxles and would work very nicely in one our light cars with a high revving 4 banger.  If you are looking for the new 5 spd family of VAG transaxles search for 012 or 01W (same or similar base transaxle as the Porsche Boxter) or the older ones mentioned by the original poster are 016 transaxles which are very good candidates as well just finding low mileage ones are harder to find.  The other interesting thing is in Europe there was a V8 Audi A6 with a front wheel drive option and a 6 speed, it would be interesting if you someone would find one of those and swap it into an Europa.  I just haven't research whether the gear ratios would work in our cars with the smaller diameter rims but I think it is good because they usually gear V8s a lot lower than the 4 cylinder versions of the transaxles.

Thanks for the info.

As you said, the Audi A4 and Passat B5 are basically the same car. I didn't realise it was the same base gearbox as the boxster.

I have an A6 C4 shape ('92-'97) TDI which has a 6 speed box - not all that hard to find, and can cope with 300 lb ft of torque. I think there are 6 speed boxster variants too.

Assume you've had to make and adaptor plate and figure out clutch / flywheel / starter to make it all fit? Have you figured it all out yet?

[Rosco5000]

That is the next part of the project I have been researching how people have done adapters.  There are a bunch of videos on YouTube that are quite informative.  I have also been contact various adapter companies to find out how much their custom adapters might cost.  Right now I am weighing the out the cost vs. frustration level of the next step.  But I know it is possible as there are some the at have been done before.  I haven't done this type of adapter before but my Dad and I have worked on other engine swaps and this is just a progression of projects.  I am finishing up a Vtec swap into a Mini for a friend and then it will be full speed ahead on the Europa.

If you are interested in the DIY steps there it is a good video on YouTube for an MR2 engine swap as well there is a one for a Ford Ranger pick up truck having a VW TDI diesel swapped into it.  Some resourceful individuals out there with some good ideas. When I get a chance I will try to post the links to the videos.

[Rosco5000]

Here are some pictures of the 012 Transaxle out of a 2002 VW Passat for you guys to get an idea of its size.  The pallet it is on is made out of 2X4s.