4129R gets new wheels

[4129R]

Alex, Cheers,

You running 185/70 13s?

Dave

185/60/13s

[EuropaTC]

4129R gets an engine transplant.

40 DCOEs and QED special cams.

I just need to set the timing properly, and set up the Webers. Then the fun begins.

Yes, I know, "Holy Thread Resurrection Batman !!!", but here goes anyway....

My Question - how does this engine work and would you mind telling me the spec ? 

I'm slowly coming round to the idea that my car could do with a bit more urge and my initial thoughts are simply replacing the standard cams with Sprint Cams but as I very rarely tune engines these days it would be handy to know what's around.

TIA

Brian

[buzzer]

To add my pennyworth into the engine tuning.

To get 145 out of the Twinks engine appears to be fairly simple, the main costs being in the head

I am running (well when I get it going)

Fast road Piper cams (285 I think will have to check, but I think the QED's to be honest are a better bet)
The std carbs but with larger Chokes 34mm and re-jetted
Gas flowed big valve head (this was the most expensive bit), not major work but opened out a bit not too manic. ended up with new valves seats etc. I got this done
ARP big end bolts. just like the extra security on the bottom end to protect against some over reving
Lightened flywheel
Re-shelled and balanced
I should be somewhere 145-150 bhp

Might be worth a chat with Richard Winter as he has a spec he follows for 150bhp  and uses 32mm chokes I think on the carbs, (improved low down torque)

Dave

[4129R]

New QED head which they had gas flowed, new cams, and the Webers were re-jetted. QED quote 145. You are welcome to pop down here and see for yourself. Only about an hour away.

The car is now certainly quick enough for normal road use.

For more power, I believe I would have to upgrade the gearbox, so not cost effective.

Alex in Norfolk.

[BDA]

Which tranny do you have? If you have a 365, you should be ok for more power.

[4129R]

Standard 5 speed Renault gearbox.

I heard it was only good for 145bhp.

As spares for the gearbox are probably made from unobtainium, and replacement second hand gearboxes as rare as rocking horse dung, I would not like to break the gearbox.

I picture touring through France looking for old breakers yards in search of Renault 17s.

Alex in Norfolk. 

[BDA]

I converted to an NG3 mostly because it is newer and I figured parts were more readily available, but I was also concerned about the 365's ability to handle the power of my BDA (177 bhp @ 7500). When I asked Richard about it, he suggested there wasn't a lot difference between the 365 and the NG3 on that score. They both have 4 spider gears and that is what determines how much power the tranny will take.

NG3s should be available from salvage yards, even in the states, so I'd expect them to be easier to find on your side of the pond. South African production of the Fuego ended in 1992 so I would think a fairly low mileage one could be found if you're motivated. They'll require some modifications spelled out here: http://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html. Richard probably has them in stock all set and ready to go.

That's just the long way of saying that there are options available, but from what I am lead to understand, your 365 should be good for more than 145 hp.

You're right about the availability of the 365. I understand they were only briefly made by Renault so spares are very difficult to come by.

[4129R]

Have you cut an access panel in the bulkhead behind the seats to easily get at the front of the engine?

I have thought it would be simple to do, put in an aluminium plate held in with screws and a gasket, so you just take out the seat and the carpet, unscrew the plate and instant access to the water pump etc.

[BDA]

Yep. Otherwise you would have to take the motor out to change the cam belt or water pump. It was pretty straightforward. I used some aluminum channel that was about the thickness of the firewall to line the hole in the firewall. I put threaded inserts in the channel to bolt a piece of aluminum plate over the hole. I think I have some pictures if you like, but I think you get the idea. Since you're using the TC, I would suggest that you use a 'cassette' water pump which would probably work nicely with an access panel. Otherwise I think you'd have to pull the motor to change the water pump - and take the head off after you get the motor out of the car!

[buzzer]

On the gearbox front, I spoke to Richard Winters and he's put 170bhp through a 365. As long as you are not silly in loadin up the box it's ok. Not enough torque. I would be more concerned about a zetec conversion as much more torque.

Dave

[andy harwood]

I'm in the process of a zetec conversion. In speaking with Richard, he advised just that - torque -  would kill the 365.

[EuropaTC]

New QED head which they had gas flowed, new cams, and the Webers were re-jetted. QED quote 145. You are welcome to pop down here and see for yourself. Only about an hour away.
The car is now certainly quick enough for normal road use.
For more power, I believe I would have to upgrade the gearbox, so not cost effective.
Alex in Norfolk.

Hi Alex,

Thanks for getting back on it.

I'm sure that 145bhp is more than enough for any Europa given our UK roads and I'm not sure I need that much increase. At the moment it's standard TC which IIRC is 105bhp, about as much as one of Tesco's shopping trolleys these days, so I think it could do with just a touch more to reduce that 25-50 time. (probably like you, we have plenty of tractors as rolling roadblocks)

I was thinking of Sprint cams because I have those in the Elan and that's a very nice drive - smooth delivery and ticks over at 8-900 rpm all day if you want. But everywhere seems to quote 140-150-160 for their cams, which back in the 70s was a recipe for something that ticked over at 1500 and had nothing at the lower end.  Usually they were 280 deg. or thereabouts and more power only came with lots more revs.  And I'm too old to want an engine that needs 5k on the clock to overtake a tractor 

But what was true in the 70s may not hold true today, hence the question.  I think I'm closer to wanting 270deg cams but I would like to hear the experiences of anyone with cams between 270-280, especially if the cam profile is such that they open faster and hence spend more time breathing within the 270-280 spread.

So....    how does your engine feel, is it the same as the old TCS apart from a bit more urge from 4,5000 upwards or does it need 1200 to tick over and 3,000 to get moving ? And if you have any tech info on your cams I'd be interested as well, there's not much detail on the QED site.

Brian

edit to add - I'd also take great care with that gearbox...... 

[4129R]

I need to get the carbs balanced to get it to tickover properly, but there is no noticeable off/on cam power. It seems very smooth right up to 6500 and gets there very quickly.

I just asked QED for cams to give me 145bhp, and they built up the head and jetted the 40DCOEs.

They are in Quorn, which is nearer Loughborough than Leicester. Very easy people to deal with, and they know the Lotus Twin Cam engines very well.