Twin Cam Engines - what to look for?

[StrawberryCheesecake]

My initial intent with the Europa project was to go for a Zetec on twin carbs - I have twin 40s and 45s lying around that I could use.

However, I was looking on the web and found a few twin cam engines for sale for less money than I expected, but I've heard a lot of horror stories about them - they are all about 40-50 years old, after all.

Water pumps have been mentioned as a problem area, warped heads, or heads that are skimmed beyond their limit.

Other than turning an engine over (assuming it's not stripped for inspection) and checking it has compression on 4 cylinders, what else can I check for. Does anyone know the standard height and minimum height for the head? Are there any hard to find parts that I need to make sure are OK or included?

Still leaning towards a Zetec... been offered a 60k mile one for next to nothing. However, I was thinking I could get a Twink for originality - the car is a keeper, but it would probably be worth more with the proper engine if I ever decided to sell it.

[EuropaTC]

Personally in your position with an empty engine bay I'd go for a modern engine. Of course it will take a lot of design work to get it all sorted out but you'll end up with more power and modern fuel injection, etc.  (and that's from someone who has twinks in the Elan & Europa.....)

But I can see the originality idea, plus it will be a known path to follow so of course the twink does have a lot going for it.  So, what to look for ? 

Waterpumps - nothing like as bad as the internet myth. Ford internals, I've replaced both Elan & Europa pumps with no real hassle other than the fact you need to take off the head and sump to do the job properly. The fact that on most other cars the waterpump is an hour or less job is the main reason people mutter and grumble about them.

Heads - as you say they are all getting on a bit now. The manual gives head depth for normal & BV heads, something like 4.64" for normal, 4.6" for BV. The most you are supposed to take off is 0.010" from the BV head but of course you've got more to play with on the normal head. The Lotus manuals are usually pretty good on detail but the definitive resource is Miles Wilkins book on the TC engine, the main advantage being that it's written in light of the modern day parts situation. Apart from corrosion, replacing valve guides and seats are the big issues which would concern me, nothing difficult there but quite costly.

Plus of course the Twink in the Europa isn't the same as the Elan.

The front cover is different, the inlet cam longer to drive the alternator and the head/cam cover has machining to accomodate this novelty. That might make the search tougher as there were more Elan/Ford twinks than Europa ones kicking around.  Is that Zetec looking better yet ?

If a twink is a serious possibility then I would suggest you look at either QED or Burton's website and look at component prices and do some sums. You'll then see why folks are asking £3/4k for rebuilt twinks and even more for modified race engines.  If that doesn't put you off then buy Miles' book from Amazon, he's a real enthusiast and has great confidence in the engine which comes through in his writing.

Brian

[4129R]

To give you an idea of cost for a new Lotus T/C head for a Europa, look at he QED website. They are based in Quorn just north of Leicester.

They have all parts available except sumps.

[HealeyBN7]

Still leaning towards a Zetec...

I could not be happier with this...  It is smooth, fast and well supported.



Dean

[StrawberryCheesecake]

'I've been told' (always a risky statement) that the Zetec has similar mounting positions to the Twink, and should fit the twink bellhousing and 5 speed renault box that I've got (guessing this is a 365 but not checked yet). The plan would be twin side draught carbs for old school looks, old school noise and simplicity of a low pressure, one way fuel system (I have sets of 40s and 45s available in the barn). I'd use an ignition only ECU (megajolt / nodiz / other) to map the ignition curve on EDIS ignition. I've got some experience of mapping megasquirt (on a Scirocco), so I'm happy to take that on.

The stock 2.0 zetec is about 130 bhp, so a carbed one with a more aggressive ignition curve (lighter car, less risk of pinking) and better exhaust setup, should get around 150 bhp or thereabouts, which should be more than enough in a stripped out Europa.

I've been offered a 60k 2.0 zetec (in an early mondeo automatic ) for 'take it out of the car and give me a drink for it' money, so that's definitely part of the plans for the initial version. I don't want to chop up the chassis, but as long as I can make adaptors for the engine mounts then it sounds pretty feasible.

Can anyone confirm the mounting issues, and whether there are major differences between early Zetecs (mid 90s, and the late 90s / early noughties ones? e.g. are the manifolds the same?

What combination of clutch / bellhousing / gearbox do folk have in their Europas?

[Grumblebuns]

If you haven't checked it out yet, our fearless forum owner has a photo album of his Twin cam Zetec conversion under construction.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/Zetec

[BDA]

I'm going to go out on a limb a little because I don't have a Zetec but I've been interested in them and seen some pictures so I think I know a LITTLE about them.

I'm not sure about the motor mounts, but I think you'll need to do some fabrication there. You will have to cut a bit on the frame for clearance toward the front of the engine.

I'm pretty sure the twink bell housing will bolt on (that wouldn't be surprising given both blocks are Fords) and most people go with an NG3 for a tranny.

I can't help at all with your vintage, clutch, manifold questions. I would point you to the lotuseuropa yahoo group and the knowledgebase (http://lotus-europa.com/ekb.html) which is a database of posts to the yahoo group. Several people over here in the states have done the conversion and I'm sure you can get good information from them. I would also refer you to Richard at Banks (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php). He knows more about Europas than anyone. I don't think I've seen where he's done a Zetec conversion but even if he hasn't done one, I suspect he knows about them. He also sells NG3s and linkage kits (depending on your frame, you may need a new rear frame tube). Some people on the yahoo group have set up a cable shifter on their cars so that might be an option.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

[HealeyBN7]

'I've been told' (always a risky statement) that the Zetec has similar mounting positions to the Twink, and should fit the twink bellhousing and 5 speed renault box that I've got (guessing this is a 365 but not checked yet). The plan would be twin side draught carbs for old school looks, old school noise and simplicity of a low pressure, one way fuel system (I have sets of 40s and 45s available in the barn). I'd use an ignition only ECU (megajolt / nodiz / other) to map the ignition curve on EDIS ignition. I've got some experience of mapping megasquirt (on a Scirocco), so I'm happy to take that on.

The stock 2.0 zetec is about 130 bhp, so a carbed one with a more aggressive ignition curve (lighter car, less risk of pinking) and better exhaust setup, should get around 150 bhp or thereabouts, which should be more than enough in a stripped out Europa.

I've been offered a 60k 2.0 zetec (in an early mondeo automatic ) for 'take it out of the car and give me a drink for it' money, so that's definitely part of the plans for the initial version. I don't want to chop up the chassis, but as long as I can make adaptors for the engine mounts then it sounds pretty feasible.

Can anyone confirm the mounting issues, and whether there are major differences between early Zetecs (mid 90s, and the late 90s / early noughties ones? e.g. are the manifolds the same?

What combination of clutch / bellhousing / gearbox do folk have in their Europas?

I have posted numerous photos of my Zetec conversion in this yahoo album.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LOTUSEUROPA/photos/albums/517570500

You should be able to find a few photos of the engine brackets.  At the end of the day, you will need to fabricate mounts. 

Also, since you are starting with an automatic the Zetec starter will have to be switched out for a Zetec manual trans starter.  Hard to believe, but they are slightly different and not interchangeable.  Photos of the differences are in the album.

Yes you can use the twincam bell housing, but I had to fabricate a bracket to mount the starter and then I cut a hole in the bellhousing to clear the starter nose.  It seems to be working out fine five years on.

I have a full set of wiring diagrams for the MejaJolt installation, (which is straight forward) available here.  It is a pdf file.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LOTUSEUROPA/files/Zetec%20Megajolt%20S2%20Manual/

I also had to modify the input shaft bearing holder, but I am using a 336 box.  If it is the same, you can find the specs and photos in the referenced .pdf doc.

Pay attention to the waterpump.  On the S2, I had to change the outlet to clear the frame rail.  Also getting the water routed and bypassed correctly is tricky.  I documented the routing in the manual, so follow that closely or the car will stay hot, or stay too cool.

When you get close I can send you my MegaJolt ECU ignition map.  It should be a good starting point for your tune.

Fun fun!

Dean

[Lou Drozdowski]

Excellent power to weight ratio...ld

[StrawberryCheesecake]

Thanks for all the feedback and offers of help further down the line. If there's anyone who has a Europa Zetec in the UK, I'd appreciate a chance to nose around it at some point. It would help to answer a lot of the questions I have.

[StrawberryCheesecake]

To give you an idea of cost for a new Lotus T/C head for a Europa, look at he QED website. They are based in Quorn just north of Leicester.

They have all parts available except sumps.

Yes, I've seen some eye watering numbers quoted. Not looking to get into a spending competition

[StrawberryCheesecake]

'I've been told' (always a risky statement) that the Zetec has similar mounting positions to the Twink, and should fit the twink bellhousing and 5 speed renault box that I've got (guessing this is a 365 but not checked yet). The plan would be twin side draught carbs for old school looks, old school noise and simplicity of a low pressure, one way fuel system (I have sets of 40s and 45s available in the barn). I'd use an ignition only ECU (megajolt / nodiz / other) to map the ignition curve on EDIS ignition. I've got some experience of mapping megasquirt (on a Scirocco), so I'm happy to take that on.

The stock 2.0 zetec is about 130 bhp, so a carbed one with a more aggressive ignition curve (lighter car, less risk of pinking) and better exhaust setup, should get around 150 bhp or thereabouts, which should be more than enough in a stripped out Europa.

I've been offered a 60k 2.0 zetec (in an early mondeo automatic ) for 'take it out of the car and give me a drink for it' money, so that's definitely part of the plans for the initial version. I don't want to chop up the chassis, but as long as I can make adaptors for the engine mounts then it sounds pretty feasible.

Can anyone confirm the mounting issues, and whether there are major differences between early Zetecs (mid 90s, and the late 90s / early noughties ones? e.g. are the manifolds the same?

What combination of clutch / bellhousing / gearbox do folk have in their Europas?

I have posted numerous photos of my Zetec conversion in this yahoo album.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LOTUSEUROPA/photos/albums/517570500

You should be able to find a few photos of the engine brackets.  At the end of the day, you will need to fabricate mounts. 

Also, since you are starting with an automatic the Zetec starter will have to be switched out for a Zetec manual trans starter.  Hard to believe, but they are slightly different and not interchangeable.  Photos of the differences are in the album.

Yes you can use the twincam bell housing, but I had to fabricate a bracket to mount the starter and then I cut a hole in the bellhousing to clear the starter nose.  It seems to be working out fine five years on.

I have a full set of wiring diagrams for the MejaJolt installation, (which is straight forward) available here.  It is a pdf file.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LOTUSEUROPA/files/Zetec%20Megajolt%20S2%20Manual/

I also had to modify the input shaft bearing holder, but I am using a 336 box.  If it is the same, you can find the specs and photos in the referenced .pdf doc.

Pay attention to the waterpump.  On the S2, I had to change the outlet to clear the frame rail.  Also getting the water routed and bypassed correctly is tricky.  I documented the routing in the manual, so follow that closely or the car will stay hot, or stay too cool.

When you get close I can send you my MegaJolt ECU ignition map.  It should be a good starting point for your tune.

Fun fun!

Dean

Hi Dean

Thanks for the help and the offer of the map. I've already downloaded the manual and saved it away.

[LotusJoe]

The series 2 Zetec will bolt directly to the Renault based bell housing. Here is a link for the different Zetec engines.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=91.0

If you use the Series 2 engine I have a jig to make the motor mounts.


Richard at Banks helped me spec out my Zetec. We used a stock Zetec flywheel and pressure plate with a modified clutch plate to accommodate the Renault input shaft splines. I used the stock starter with an eleven tooth starter gear and spaced it away from the flywheel.



If you are using an engine from an automatic then besides having to change the flywheel you will also have to change the pickup sensor for the timing. Stock item at any Ford dealer, IIRC it was like $25.00.

Dunnell Engines in the UK are the goto guys for Zetec modifications. Paul Dunnell is very easy to work with.

http://www.dunnellengines.com/zetec.php

I also changed the water pump to rotate the proper direction. (Sourced from Dunnell)


I would say if you pick the right Series of Zetec the conversion is pretty straight forward.

The engine placement for the Zetec works out to be pretty close to the stock Twin Cam. There is plenty of clearance.

[StrawberryCheesecake]

Thanks, Joe. Great info in there.

As much as I've been offered a low mileage series 1 for next to nothing, maybe it isn't the best one to go for. Series 3 looks like a better engine than series 1 or 2... having solid tappets and bearing ladder, it might cope better with higher rpm if I decide to change cams in the future.

I'll give the experts at dunnell a call and get their opinion.

[andy harwood]

Would there be any issues using a SVT Zetec? It is about 170 hp stock?