Thinking about a Europa EV conversion?

[Grumblebuns]

Well, this owner is doing it. I came across his Youtube videos  recently and decided to subscribe to his channel just to watch his progress. From what I can see, he appeaars to be pretty knowledgeable, at least in the electrical realm. His work looks to be neat and clean. I'm waiting for him to explain the motor drive system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YCEQIdMVqg&list=PLVI6drejxJEDFDJIzwMOTBdRd408aJqgF&index=52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgIDKVtj9c&list=PLVI6drejxJEDFDJIzwMOTBdRd408aJqgF&index=53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYGZr6skhLI&list=PLVI6drejxJEDFDJIzwMOTBdRd408aJqgF&index=54&t=480s

[4129R]

Part of the charm of driving a Lotus, powered by an ICE, is the noise the engine makes, just as in F1 racing when they had proper V10 engines.

Take the noise of the ICE away, and you end up with a milk float.

Add to that the tendency of EVs to spontaneously combust, and I cannot see the attraction. 

[Clifton]

I love this. F the noise. When Tesla's are running and we are working the coarse, they are amazing. He will have a lot of fun with the torque. Lithium is 100% safe if you follow the rules, safer than these coffins we drive!

[Fotog]

I can't say I know what a "milk float" is, but I'll still add it to my list of humorous Britishisms.

It's very interesting to me to see Clifton chiming in that he's all for it. After all you (Clifton) have done to optimize an internal combustion car for autocrossing.  My instinct is that much of what I like about the Europa is the visceral experience that includes the noise as a big piece of it; but maybe some other aspects too that you wouldn't get with an EV.  Like maybe uneven torque through the range.  (It's great when you get that peak). But maybe I'm wrong!

Clifton:  Have you driven one?  Maybe the actual performance is better, but it's not as much fun.  Of course... I understand, when there's a score sheet at the end.   

[BDA]

I'm not a huge fan of electric cars. They make sense in some situations and make no sense in others. I did drive a buddy's Tesla. I don't remember the model but I'm pretty sure it a dual motor version but I also seem to remember that my buddy said it wasn't the fastest version of the model.

Turning it on and sitting in it, the first thing that struck me was that it felt like I was sitting in a cell phone app. Almost everything was customizable on the touch screen. Driving it was very different from what I was expecting. Having instantaneous torque is pretty wild. I had to really watch myself or I'd end up going a lot faster than I intended. Then with regenerative braking turned on, you almost never had to actually use the brakes.

It was an interesting experience but, as I say, I have little interest in them. I can see where they would be good autocross cars in spite of how heavy they are. The guy in the video seems to know what he's doing but I have to say that I was bored by it. I had no idea what he was talking about! I'm sure that he'll end up with an interesting car and I'd like to see a video about the results of all his work but I'm like Fotog. I like the change in torque, the sounds, and shifting my gears myself.

[314159td]

I think most of us in this crowd would dislike a swath of recent cars, not just the EVs. All manufacturers are rapidly accelerating towards perfecting the emotionless jellybean vehicle, save a few specific models (Miata, et al).

Europa EV has crossed my mind, particularly for the low drag and already horrendous storage space if we're being honest with ourselves. You can fit Model S/X modules very nicely up against the firewall (in place of the fuel tanks, like saddlebags) and in that over-footwell area. I had two cars worth of modules I bought from work and was distributing, spent a few hours mocking up the layout but I'd rather convert a restored car than triple the length of this project.

I am increasingly frustrated by the direction that automakers have taken to satisfy the public's "need" (which is incredibly stupid) for 300+ miles of range. Decrease the cross sectional area? Absolutely not, in fact, make it larger! Some, such as Tesla and Mercedes, have really dug into optimizing drag coefficient, but the fact remains they have double the frontal area of a Europa.

My requirements for a conversion typically start with a 1976 or later model year vehicle, just to not kill off something that could be put on the road without Smog testing, but the Europa is incredibly compelling in all other regards. The powertrain is somewhat interesting, but mostly from the standpoint of weight distribution so I also wouldn't heavily mourn ditching it.

In particular, Lucid's drive unit with the integrated differential seems like an excellent fit to drop in place of the Europa transaxle - I spent a while at one of their showrooms with a tape measure and was hilariously very welcomed. Very high voltage architecture is tricky to do in a conversion, as you need so many cells to hit that voltage, but there are already tricks to reconfigure Tesla modules to double the voltage.

Rambling at this point, but I think it actually makes sense. After I've put 70k or so on this powertrain I'll be seriously trading an EV conversion, and wouldn't be surprised if more show up. Definitely potential to make the most efficient (energy per distance) EV conversion.

[EuropaTC]

I can't say I know what a "milk float" is, but I'll still add it to my list of humorous Britishisms.

Here ya go.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float

Definitely a quirky thing and I haven't seen one for years. When I was a kid towards the end of the 50s I remember them delivering milk to your doorstep before I went to school. They were very slow things but probably well suited to the job of constantly starting/moving 10yds/stopping/deliver milk to doorstep which would have been a PITA with an ICE, you'd end up leaving it running all the time. 

Absolutely nothing like the modern EVs !

[Blitzen]

I’m surprised there’s not more discussion about the weight.   I don’t see how an EV conversion can be as light.  For me the beauty of the Europa is the handling and adding weight will upset that.

[4129R]

I can't say I know what a "milk float" is, but I'll still add it to my list of humorous Britishisms.

Before the 90s, in the UK we used to have milk delivered in glass pint bottles daily. Gold top = cream on top full fat, silver top = semi-skimmed, red top = skimmed.

The floats that delivered them were electric battery powered with the noise of the clanking glass bottles greater than the whine of the engine. The milkman collected the washed empties for re-use.

It is bad enough being assimilated to a bread van, but to make it sound like a milk float would have Colin fuming.

[314159td]

Weight isn't as much of a concern anymore. A wet Europa has 5-600+ lbs of ICE-related weight to tear out (depending on powertrain and # of tanks). The landscape of used EV parts has changed a lot from a decade ago when this was actually impossible. I spend a lot of time digging around the proverbial scrap bins of the EV space and can get my hands on fun parts from time to time, and have a decent idea of what's available.

Tesla 6.3 kWh modules are about 65 lbs and should give 20 miles of range each in an Europa, call it 6 of those so 400ish lbs with some HV connectors and plumbing. There are a handful of drive units in the 150-230lb territory that will provide similar power. It'll be close or over weight, but I reckon doable with less than a 200lb increase - as always, more money equals less weight. The little stuff can add up quickly in cost and weight, but there are strategies to mitigate. You still need a radiator, copper is heavy, etc.

If you want 500 miles of range, absolutely not doable. Pretty sure you can't go more than 150 with a standard Europa tank for most driving conditions. If you want crazy EV range...the options weigh 4+ times as much as a Europa. I'd bet that in about a decade, the affordable used parts can easily match an ICE Europa on all fronts - shouldn't cost more than a nice engine build, and it seems like most of us here have the fabrication skills or know people who do.

[gideon]

It's been mentioned before on this forum before, but the Palatov D47 is an EV with the skin of a Europa and the guts of a race car.  You might even be able to order one if you have enough money.

https://www.dpcars.net/d47/index.htm

I reckon Colin would find it very interesting.