Still can't sort gearbox problem.

[Sparkrite]

On my tcs 5 speed the most prominent problem is that once I drive off in 1st gear, it is then quite difficult in getting out of 1st gear. My understanding is that this has nothing to do with the syncros but much more to do with the clutch.
I cant see how it's the clutch not releasing because with the clutch pedal pressed I can measure 66 thou of gap between the clutch disc and the flywheel. Also I can select all gears whilst stationary/idle and whilst driving but with a more controlled gearchange.

[Clifton]

The clutch wouldn't keep it from coming out of gear, only going into the next gear if there wasn't 100% disengagement and even some drag.  The trans I use, Toyota E153 are famous for this. If there isn't enough disengagement. What is good at 6000 rpm is not enough at 7600 rpm, it will not shift into the next gear regardless of how hard you try.  My pedal catches half way up, only way it can shift at high revs.

Yours sounds like something other than clutch if you are off the accel pedal 100%/ no load when this occurs.

[GavinT]

Dunno what's recommended (?) but 66 thou seems really close to me.
I'm also thinking you cant reasonably compare static and dynamic behaviour of the clutch.

When you take your foot off the clutch pedal, what is the clearance between the release bearing and the pressure plate fingers? I'm presuming you can peer into the bell housing for this.

Lots of possibilities:
Warped friction disc.
Broken disc centre spring or loose/delaminated/damaged friction material
Warped or loose pressure plate.
Collapsed/cracked/broken diaphragm spring.
Binding/dry/sticky transmission input shaft for either the clutch disc or release bearing.
Dry/collapsed/damaged release bearing
Binding or worn pilot bearing.

Or some combination of those.
How much is a clutch kit?

[4129R]

I would try tightening the 7/16" nuts on the cable by 3 full turns (= 18 flats) to see if that makes any difference.

If the clutch slips, take it back to 2 full turns (=12 flats).

That costs nothing, and might work.

[Sparkrite]

The clutch disc was done not long ago and worked fine on a 600 mile trip.
If the clutch/pilot bearing was dragging in dynamic operation then surely this would show as "creeping" when on a flat road and in gear but with the clutch depressed.
I've tried a lot of different adjustments with the cable but it doesn't change the issues. I just can't may sense of what the culprit is.

[4129R]

I know for a fact that a Ferrari Daytona cannot engage 2nd gear while the gearbox oil is cold.

Does it make any difference after a long run when the gearbox oil is hot?

Just a thought from 1975 !!!

[jbcollier]

Carefully jack up the car so one rear wheel is off the ground.  Put the car in gear.  Have your Beautiful Assistant fully depress the clutch.  You should be able to easily turn the rear wheel. If not, try it with the care in neutral.  If it is free in neutral but not with the clutch depressed when the car is in gear, you have a dragging clutch.

I always, always, always, change the complete clutch when I am in there: disc, pressure plate, release bearing, pilot bearing/bush, and resurface the flywheel (if needed).  Just doesn't pay to do anything less.

[Sparkrite]

I know for a fact that a Ferrari Daytona cannot engage 2nd gear while the gearbox oil is cold.

Does it make any difference after a long run when the gearbox oil is hot?

Just a thought from 1975 !!!

I have a Ferrari 308 and always go from 1st to 3rd for at good 5 miles before using second. My Europa has trouble simply getting OUT of 1st.

[Sparkrite]

I have done JBC's test of jacking the car up and spinning the wheel. As suspected the wheel was free to turn by hand, so I am very sure it's not the clutch/pilot bearing.

[kram350kram]

Sparkrite, I just did a Ford top loader transmission for a friend which would not shift out of 3rd without much much difficulty, was sort of hard to get into gear too. Kinda the same symptoms you speak of. Turned out it was a broken/ cracked hub so the slider would cock and jam on the keys, then bind on the blocker ring and keep the slider from disengauging the gear. Going into gear was better as everything sort of lined up from the forward pressure, but pulling out of gear,  all would bind up.  Not familiar with the details on the TCS 5 speed but your issue sounds like what I just went through.

Same effort into and out of 1st gear, wheather engine running or not?

Just wonder... try driving 20 mph or so, cut the engine, push in clutch and see if any easier to pull out of gear. Maybe unloading the cluster and the gear may reveal an internal fault?

[Sparkrite]

Hi Kram,thanks for the input. What you suggest sounds quite plausible but there are no issues in getting in and out of gear with the engine running and clutch pedal down but the car being stationary.
I will still try your 20mph test as it's much easier than pulling and dismantling the gearbox.

[jbcollier]

Can you expand on this statement:

"Also I can select all gears whilst stationary/idle and whilst driving but with a more controlled gearchange."

What do you mean by "controlled" gear change?  What would "uncontrolled" be?

[Sparkrite]

Whilst stationary and the engine at idle there are no issues at all in going through the gears,even with reverse. But in order to change into 2nd its very hard to get out of 1st, then I need to do it a bit slowly. Changing from 3rd to 2nd seems easier though. Getting into 3rd and 4th gears is still not quite as slick as it was, say about 100 or so miles ago.

[jbcollier]

Renault transaxles use a different synchro design on 1-2 as compared to 3-4-5.  The 1-2 shift is indeed "baulkier", especially when cold.  Oil choice can make a huge difference.  What oil are you using currently?