NG3 - another question

[andy harwood]

I thought since the NG3 has been a topic.
Got my cable shifter mocked up, but I can't seem to find Reverse.
1st/2nd -3rd/4th- 5th. found
According to the info I've found, there should be about 16 mm left/right movement in the shaft. I appear to have about 10mm.
The left/right movement should be unrestricted for the full 16mm travel when in the neutral position - correct?
It appears the shaft should travel 5-6mm further to access the R gate, but even pushing manually, the shaft seems to be at the end of travel.
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated!

[BDA]

There is a pretty stiff detent to overcome going into reverse.

[andy harwood]

Is the detent you refer to left to right - or fore/aft?
I understand that there is spring tension in the left/right movement. Read in the knowledge base one comment that maybe a few coils would have to be cut from the spring to make it easier to find "R". But that was it - no further comments.
Seeing as how I'm a bit shy of the side to side measurements I've seen on the YH list write up, I'm assuming I'm not getting to the "R" gate?
I've almost pushed the Europa frame over attempting to push the shaft further - I wouldn't think the spring is that strong of resistance? I don't know, my 1st time doing this. It seems as if the shaft is at a dead stop - don't want to force and break/bend anything.
Hence my question - when in neutral position the shaft should have the total  appx. 16 mm distance travel with just spring tension?
As in the photo, I've nothing attached to the shaft, and get about 10-11mm travel, neutral position. Same when shifter linkage is attached.
Mostly, just figured I am doing something wrong, lol.
Will give Banks a call next week, just thought I'd ask here first.
Thanks for the input

[BDA]

I think you'll actually feel two detents (one going into R and one going into 5). The are encounterd moving the shift shaft from side to side. I would use a punch or something similar in the hole in your shift shaft to move it.


I believe the spring is to "center" the shift lever to be at the 3-4 gate. In addition, there is a detent designed to keep you from accidentally go into reverse. Coming up on it will not feel like a dead stop but rather firm resistance. If you push hard, but not hard enough to get past the detent, you should get a little displacement. If it feels like you're pushing against a solid immovable object, there is probably something wrong. Can you check the gear by turning the input shaft and watching the movement of the output shafts? If you're getting a hard stop, that might mean that the R fork is not in alignment at neutral and you're pushing against it. It's very unlikely that you could damage it by pushing on the sift shaft. Using a hammer could be another matter. I don't think you'll be able to turn the input shaft if you are in both R and another gear but I've never tried it. This is all a bit from memory and some educated guesswork on how it's supposed to work, so if I've gotten anything wrong, maybe John will chime in.


It's not a big deal to take the end cover off and make sure that all the shift forks are aligned. But if they aren't aligned, that could possibly be a real issue. That shouldn't happen - or let's say it hasn't been an issue for me and I've not heard of it. Talking to somebody smarter than I am would be a good next step if that's the case just to allay your fears or clue you in on the fix.


One thing that happened to me is the nut on the secondary shaft - the one with the speedo gears on it - ended up being loose. I had another guy look at my tranny when my speedo gears shredded so it could have been him or maybe it was loose when Richard sold it to me. I blame no one. In my case, it made it difficult to get into 2. I suppose something like that could possibly cause your problem. The solution was to put it in 1 & 5 and using a 32mm(?) crowfoot, torque it to 150 ft-lbs. I red locktited it for good measure.


Don't be afraid to take the end cover off. If you end up calling Richard, you'll probably want that in case there's something in there you need to tell him about.

[andy harwood]

Thanks again for the input.
Yes, can feel the 5th gear detent.
Am using a screwdriver to move shaft, seems to "stop" as opposed to being spring tension, when trying to access 'R'.
Transaxle/bell housing/engine assembly are in frame, so cannot see input shaft.
I downloaded the NG3 manual, will start giving it a browse.

[Stuleslie]

Hi, like you I could not get reverse while in the middle of a re-build. As you will see in the BV manual reverse at the gear stick is left then back. At the input lever on the gearbox that translates to right and forwards looking from the back. I made sure the stick was in neutral then gently taped the input lever with a rubber mallet which over-came the spring/ball indent, which as you have suggested puts the shaft about 5 mm inwards. I then could move the stick back and select reverse. Try jacking up one rear wheel and turning it in reverse and try to select again. The whole problem with selecting reverse like this is that it does not have synchromesh to guide it and so with straight cut gears and a mini lever in the box it is difficult to line up. Also beware that you do not force the stick back too hard as the fulcrum point of the reverse lever might sheer. This happened to me with a hillman imp many moons ago and I had to push it uphill to get out of a parking space.
Cheers Stu

[BDA]

After reading Stu's post, I'm more convinced that you probably haven't pushed hard enough and/or things are not quite lined up. I don't think there is a worry about breaking anything as long as you stick to hand pressure or, as Stu did, a rubber mallet.

[andy harwood]

Thanks to Stu & BDA.
More pressure gets to 'R' gate and shaft rotates nicely into gear.
While in neutral shaft position, I used a rubber hammer and tapping could see shaft moving further.
So I used some leverage to move the shaft further until being able to shift into 'R'.
Still - I can't fathom why there is so much spring pressure. In side to side shifter movement, I think either  a shaft or cable shifter would not be able to overcome this spring pressure.
In the knowledge base, I did see one reference to removing some coils of the spring to make shifting easier -  but I've seen no reference to anyone actually doing this when converting to a NG3.
Think I'll give Banks a call next week.

[BDA]

Glad to hear you got it into R!! 

I understand the detent for R but the 365 and the NG3 have a somewhat stiff detent going into 5. Don't ask me why. There's a detent 'cam' on the 365 (and also the 352) that has two ears on it - one for R and one for 5. If I had used my 365, I would have filed down the 5 detent cam ear to make it easier to get it into gear. The detent into 5 on the NG3 either isn't as bad as the 365 or I've gotten used to it.

Have you seen the modifications for the NG3? (http://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html). I don't remember if cutting off the spring but I read them mostly for curiosity's sake so I might have missed it. If it's not there, I'm not sure I would do it. You'll end up with a shorter, stiffer spring. I'm not sure that's what you want. If you got your NG3 from Richard and it's desirable, he probably already did it. That being said, it might be worth a call to see what he says.

I have Richard's linkage kit and I don't have a problem with shifting (other than the aforementioned detent issue). As I say, getting into R requires a bit of force. If I'm not paying enough attention, I end up in 2 sometimes but that's pretty rare and since I have a backup camera, if the camera doesn't come on, I know to try again. I'm not familiar with the cable shift schemes but most push-pull cables are equally strong in compression and tension. If you don't have your cables yet, Morse is a popular cable that is widely available in boat shops. They're generally not as flexible as CableCraft (http://www.cablecraft.com/). THey're probably a bit more expensive but I like them better. I have them for my accelerator and clutch cables.

[andy harwood]

5th gear I can find with the cable shift. Actually, I made a new bell crank with a bit more leverage that the stock Toyota bell crank - because I thought it was my designing of the shifter (did it a bit different than other write ups using Toyota shifter parts). But, I was and am getting enough cable travel to move the shifter shaft.
My NG3 came modified from Banks as outlined in the site you link to. I think it was CableCraft that I ordered my cables from.
First - I 'copied' D. Anderson's cable shift set up - liked the simplicity. Couldn't get to the 'R'. So followed what J. Mellelieu  did, kinda.
As far as cutting the spring - I only saw the 1 mention of that in the knowledge base, nothing that anyone has actually done it.
This seems way too much resistance to be normal. I'll give Richard a ring for his input.

[andy harwood]

I did give Richard at Banks a call. Very helpful.
Change the spring, cut the spring a bit, add a spacer were suggestions.
So, I remove the spring, did a bit of net research to try and find a replacement. Some possibilities found, but have to buy minimum quanities.
Then I thought about some Garand and M1 Carbine springs that I have.
So, removed the parts of the reverse detent, and surprise - out of the detent plunger falls a 1/4" piece of threaded rod.
This seems to be what the problem was. Don't know why it was there.
Piece of threaded rod in foreground, then detent spring - and that is one stiff spring!

[BDA]

That's great news! Your problem is probably fixed AND you don't have to steal a spring from your Garand or carbine - don't want to do that! 

[Gmg31]

"Then I thought about some Garand and M1 Carbine springs that I have."

I can't help thinking that those are not parts that British members will have access to? 

It made me laugh.