1973 TCS 356 5 speed box wanted

[Grumblebuns]

Again my opinion and not knowing your history with working on transmissions. Personally, I have not experience with delving into the internals of manual transmissions. If this happened to me, I wouldn't know what to look for. Broken and jammed gears would be obvious, but I wouldn't know what other collateral damage to look for. The other factor to consider is the availability of 365 parts. Personally I would talk to the local transmission expert first and get his opinion.
I would also consider contacting Rich Kemp at Kampena Motors. He's had experience working on Europa transaxles for other owners. He may have a stash of parts that you need.

http://kampena.com/ 

The 365 transaxle is a rare beast, that rarely comes up for sale and when it does, expect to pay a pretty penny for it. If after examination you come to the conclusion that you need a replacement, contact me, maybe we can come to a suitable deal.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca 

[BDA]

That really is a run of bad luck!

Unless that wrench has worked on a Europa, it's unlikely he's worked on anything like your 365 (since it's a Renault tranny). But then, with the manual, he shouldn't have any trouble working on it.

I think I would take it out and split it open and see what can be seen. Many years ago, I took mine out and opened it up - and successfully put it all back together - so it's not as daunting as you might think. If it's something obvious and non terminal, you might be able to fix it your self. If it's not obvious, you can put it back together enough to give to that wrench. If you need parts, remember Meca Parts and Alpine-America. As I said earlier, I've been led to understand that parts for the 365 are not as unavailable as I thought. As Joji said, 365s are pretty rare. I think they were used in a Renault, in addition to the Europa, but I believe the 5th gear is a Lotus adaptation.

[jbcollier]

Diagnosis over the phone is tricky but perhaps a broken tooth on the ring gear.  Pop off the bell housing once the transaxle is out and you'll know.

[Lotusjps]

Many parts such as synchros are available, others like 2nd gear are complete unobtainium (guess how I know).  I have a 365 box with all brand new seals, bearings and synchros, but needs a 2nd gear.  After searching for a couple years I gave up and put in a NG3.  If you go the NG3 route do some research as they came with some very different gearing.  The one from the turbo Fuego has the closest to the 365, though 1st gear is better suited for pulling stumps or rock crawling than in a light weight sports car.

[HelpMyLotus]

Finally got the trans out.  I needed to take the bell with it first (like you all said) then it dropped down and away just fine.  Got the bell off and found a chunk of metal that looked like a ring that would fit over a synchro or something.  Took the end cap off and found sludge in the valleys.  In order to split the case I need to remove the large gears on the end.  they cover the bolts that hold the end plate on.   Still not sure it this is territory I should be toying with.   I may just hand it off to the experts.


LotusJPS:  So you did the 395 box conversion?  I may be interested if I'm unable to fix mine.  I just don't want too much fixing and altering to do.

[HelpMyLotus]

Dropped off the trans at a shop I we referred to.  Hopefully I hear back with moderate to great news.  We'll see.

[HelpMyLotus]

OK everyone, it's dead.  I talked to the trans shop who informed me a bearing has spun, gears 1 through 5 were damaged, a fork damaged and so on.   

Looking for a 365 before I go the 395 route.  I'd REALLY like to keep it original.  Happy to supply my box as a core on a working box. 

Begging.  It's my dad's car I'd like to take him for a ride in before his time is up. 

[BDA]

I believe our own andy harwood has fit an NG3 in a 365 frame (with a little help from a persuader on the rear hoop). I don't know if the 395 is as easy to find or will fit as easily. I believe our own jbcollier has a 395 in his S1 and he might be able to advise you about avialability and fitting. Because I know nothing about the 395 or installing it, I would advise you to get an NG3. Richard at Banks sells a kit including linkage and mounts. Shipping is usually pretty quick.


Good luck, both with your car and your dad!

[jbcollier]

365 transaxles are not very common.  One or two show up on ebay every year with internal condition unknown.  You would need one from a Europa as they have the differential going in the right direction and the longer 0.86 fifth gear (Hewland-made, Lotus-only, now-unobtainium part).  The Renault R17G 365 is rare as hen's teeth and doesn't come with the longer 5th.  Other versions of the 365 are from rear drive applications so the diff goes the wrong way.

The 395 transaxle was used in the R17G through to early R18 (I think).  Early versions have a nice 3.4X first gear but a 0.91 fifth.  Later 395s have a less useful shorter first but fifth is now 0.86.  The 395 ratios are not as nicely spaced as in the 365 with its relatively even steps (except 5th).  1-2-3 are nicely spaced but 4th is slightly too long.  No problem on the street but annoying on the track.

The NG3-065 transaxle was brought into North America in relatively large numbers in the Renault Fuego Turbo.  It is a beefed up 395 with a still too short 1st and a nice 0.86 fifth.  Probably the easiest to find and most robust transaxle replacement available.  Richard Banks at Europa Engineering offers kits to mount and adapt the shift linkage to suit.  Regardless it is not a bolt in operation and some fabrication and tweaking will be required.

I use an early 395 with 5th gear from a later 395.  Makes a very good street transaxle.  I made up my own cable shifter and am completely delighted with how everything works.

Europa work often takes longer than planned and, often again, more work is found that needs to also be done at the same time.  If your dad is in a bad way, arrange to have a lister who is local to you take your dad for a drive.

[HelpMyLotus]

JB:  Excellent information.  I will continue to seek parts, trans' and alternatives.

The reason the car is so important (I mean THIS car) is because it was his in 1989.  A friend had it, then another, now me.  I had it on the road for 300 miles or so when the trans took a dump. 

I'm not against trying to fit the 395.  I have welders, cutters and machinists on hand.  We can do anything, especially if it's been done before.

Thank you for the replies thus far.  I'm still interested in what the collection of kind email sources and my trans shop come up with.  Of course throwing money at a situation so it stays stock is one of the options.  Not my first, but an option.  The second being the 395.   Anyone know if the 395 will be a perfect fit for my axles or if I need to do work?   

[TCS4605R]

Helpmylotus,

Have you contacted Dave Bean Engineering in California to see if they can source parts for your 365?  They did for me, but is was some year ago.

Tom
74 TCS - 4605R

[HelpMyLotus]

Is EVERYTHING available?  There must be a point of no return.