Author Topic: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious  (Read 3843 times)

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Offline StephenH

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #15 on: Saturday,July 29, 2017, 05:55:37 PM »
What compression ratio are you running?

This remain a mystery as the pistons are of unknown origin.
I suspect high but not stupid as it was largely built on advice from Richard at Banks.
Stephen
54/1690 1969 S2

Offline jbcollier

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #16 on: Saturday,July 29, 2017, 08:53:34 PM »
Did a wee bit of spelunking.

Total advance:

R12 Gordini        32°    10.25:1

Alpine 1600S      36°    10.25:1

Alpine 1600GS    34°     11.5:1

Now the R12G (125 hp) is a production car meant to run on pump fuel while the 1600S (140 hp) is barely streetable and the 1600GS (172 hp) is full race.

Offline StephenH

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #17 on: Sunday,August 06, 2017, 10:30:02 PM »
Looks like one of the pistons has gently tapped a plug gap closed, fortunately without catastrophic failure.

OK, so a little catastrophic after all......
Now the head is off I can confirm there is a hole through one of the pistons, but the cause isn't detonation.
The neat round hole is from a valve stem punching through the piston.
Appears the original engine build left a few things to be desired although it was making decent power.
Exhaust valve to piston clearance insufficient and all 4 exhaust valves have been knocking clearance into the pistons.
Unfortunately I didn't pick this up when I stuck a camera down into the cylinders a couple years ago.
This was only ever going to end badly, the only question was when... the cylinder head has been shaved heavily to get the cylinder pressure up.

This is what happens sometimes when you buy a vehicle with a few mysteries about it, in this case, exactly what was inside the engine.

The past owner did a lot of good work on this car but never quite finished it.
Appears one of the things that wasn't so good was the selection of pistons used (I was told R12 Gordini - but they aren't.....) and setting up the valve to piston clearances.

Amazingly this tough little engine was still idling and you could probably put another set of pistons straight into the existing sleeves as there is no bore damage.
The head is another matter, aside from the damage the head has had too much material removed and so getting the Gordini spec pistons and valves to work is really a lost cause.

So disappointed that the build wasn't done properly in the first place, but at least the mystery of why it failed is pretty clear, this isn't a fuel or ignition related problem.
So the recovery plan is straight forward, source another head and a bucket load of correct pistons, sleeves and valves.
Pour some time=money into the head and bolt it back together for return of joy.
Stephen
54/1690 1969 S2

Offline Certified Lotus

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #18 on: Monday,August 07, 2017, 03:32:37 AM »
Sorry to hear the reason for failure. It's amazing your engine ran as long as it did with this issue.

Offline buzzer

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #19 on: Monday,August 07, 2017, 04:46:41 AM »
Well positive you know what the issue was. shame you need a replacement head. No option for a thicker head gasket? if they are available of course. I had a similar issue with valves touching the pistons on a ford 1700 cross flow motor with bigger valve and high lift cam. Bought the motor second hand, thrashed it about, but decided to do a rebuild to stop leaks sort out a worn cam lobe and balance everything. Glad I did as I took the parts into Vulcan engineering and he immediately picked up a piston to look at and showed me the witness marks on the piston where the valves had been just touching. Got away with that with just a new cam as I recon thats what caused the cam lobe to fail! probably helped that the valves are in line with the pistons too to not a bending load.
Dave,

Other cars. Westfield SEiW. BMW E90 Alpina D3. BMW 325 E30 convertible and Range Rover CSK

Offline BDA

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #20 on: Monday,August 07, 2017, 05:35:09 AM »
That's rough, Stephen! I agree with Certified that it's amazing that it lasted as long as it did. Hopefully you can source a new head (I'm guessing they're harder to find than pistons) and put the motor together better than ever!

Offline StephenH

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #21 on: Saturday,August 12, 2017, 06:53:24 PM »
The latest update is that the bottom end seems OK, but the rods fitted were standard rather than what I was led to believe was installed.

Never mind..... :headbanger:

A 'new'' head has been sourced along with a set of forged rods and correct high compression design pistons.
Local Alpine guru is looking after the machining and porting of the head to the same spec as they use in the 160hp Alpine 110.
Will then go back together and guessing it will produce similar or slightly better power than it did previously.
Stephen
54/1690 1969 S2

Offline Certified Lotus

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #22 on: Saturday,August 12, 2017, 07:00:27 PM »
At least you will know exactly what you have when the engine is finished being rebuilt.

Offline BDA

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Re: My first experience of Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
« Reply #23 on: Saturday,August 12, 2017, 07:24:53 PM »
It sounds like you really were lucky that the motor lasted as long as it did. Unfortunately, your luck ran out but as Certified said, when you get your motor screwed together, you'll have confidence that it's been put together properly.