Author Topic: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...  (Read 3121 times)

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Offline jbcollier

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Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 06:34:07 AM »
Why are people going to such lengths to avoid Lotus specific parts suppliers?  Heck one lister bought an upholstery kit from Banks and then offered to see if he could get it cloned for list members !!  What are we trying to do?  Put Banks out of business !  I have no problem with DIY but it is just plain loco to undercut someone who has worked so hard to keep Europas on the road.  Parts and service suppliers are absolutely key to the future viability and future value of Europas.  Do yourself a favour and support the people who work so hard for the car we all love.

Offline EuropatcSPECIAL

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #1 on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 07:52:40 AM »
 :WTF: I would agree with JB. If a supplier has gone to the trouble to source and stock items then we should use them. To buy an item as a pattern to then consider someone else to use it as a pattern to make more is just so wrong IMHO any way

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #2 on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 09:27:15 AM »
I can't disagree with any of the above.

Whilst I will buy what I call general running spares - bearings or brake pads for example - from wherever I can source them I am certainly not averse from buying directly from people like SJS or Banks even if it means a couple of quid premium.   In some cases, such as the release bearing for my Europa, it even made more sense to buy from Banks than to mess about trying to source the part myself, even though I knew what application it came from, the bearing dimensions, etc.  His price wasn't unreasonable and I knew it would fit.

Our cars are a relatively low numbers and I'm like most owners who don't use the car daily, so things don't wear out as fast as they used to do in the 80s/90s.  With more owners like me,  the available market volume for the Specialists shrinks that little bit more. When you think about that fact alone, I'm just amazed at what these guys are reproducing and putting back on the shelves. 

Brian

Offline 4129R

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #3 on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 10:09:59 AM »
The crash pad vinyl cover on its own is not available from Banks. He only sells it with the whole fibreglass crashpad for around £140+VAT.

The black vinyl cover is only about £40. I am getting several made for me, as I don't want to buy lots of fibreglass tops for £100+ VAT that I don't need.

I have spent in excess of £7,000 with Banks in the last year, so I am not exactly trying to put him out of business. I have been to his premises twice, seen all his stock, and am very very pleased that he is there, as without him, we would be stuffed.

I have recommended that people buy his brass door hinges, and his engine cover struts, as they are both very well made and very necessary, so I am singing his praises rather than trying to put him out of business or undercutting him.

As I will be buying heaps more from him over the next 3+ years, I very much hope he will still be around for many more years.

I can see nothing wrong in seeing if others want something he does not supply. If I am getting several made, I thought maybe others want one too, but apparently not
« Last Edit: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 10:18:15 AM by 4129R »

Offline 4129R

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #4 on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 10:55:29 AM »
And I told Richard Winter at Banks that if I can find a close match for the oatmeal cloth seat material, I will let him know the supplier, as I believe he had the last roll, and it is no longer available. I had the last two sets of cloth seat insets that were upholstered in this material. 

There are many things which Banks cannot supply, or does not want to supply.

I asked him if he had the door light switches, he said they were no longer available and to let him know if I find a close match.

We are all here to help each other, not to try to undercut suppliers and put their businesses at risk. Is there any other Forum user out there who has spent over £7,000 + VAT ($11,000) buying stuff from Banks in the last year? 

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #5 on: Saturday,January 23, 2016, 12:47:57 PM »
Sorry for picking on you 4129R.  You are doing more than your fair share.  My comments in general still stand though.

Offline Rosco5000

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #6 on: Sunday,January 24, 2016, 06:39:34 AM »
I think you have some good points about needing to have a good supply network for the long term viability of our cars.  However, I work for a regional grocery store chain and I have worked for an Austin Mini specialist so I thought I would share my perspective on retail.
I would say as much as you worry about a specialists long term viability a little competition will benefit us the purchasers as it will make sure pricing isn't too one sided.
 
As for one off items like the seat cover example I would say it is a good learning for both the group and the suppliers like Banks or others. I liken it to a corporate brand product.  As much as a corporate brand product in a grocery store is about a cheap price it is largely an avenue for a retailer to keep the brand companies in check. E.g. My company did a blind taste test on our canned corn.  Ours was picked as the brand every time because it tasted the best and had the biggest kernels but what it really did was let us know we can make a better product for a better price and now we were armed better for negotiations with the brand supplier.
 
I don't think a few one off group buys are going to close the specialists doors but there is obviously a feeling some pricing has some room in it.  Maybe the better solution is to include the specialists in this discussion. If they can't match or come close to the one off pricing maybe the specialist is paying too much from their suppliers and need to switch to the one the group finds, this may be one way for the group and retailers to support each other.
Just my $0.02.
Ross
1974 Europa Special
1969 Europa S2
1970 Lotus Elan +2
1978 Austin Mini - 1275, big brakes
1991 Ford Explorer - Lifted on 33s, custom lift and radius arms
2005 Chrysler 300C - chipped, lowered 22s
2011 Cadillac Escalade - Stage 3 cam, Headers, CAI, 2,600 stall converter

Offline BDA

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #7 on: Sunday,January 24, 2016, 09:26:35 AM »
There are occasionally parts that the usual suspects might not have that can be found in a junkyard or off somebody's parts car, but other than that, I would presume that people like Banks, r.d., Dave Bean, et al. know the proper equivalent parts on other cars and would would use supplies of them if Lotus had supply issues with those parts. In fact, I might expect them to stock the equivalent parts before the 'official' Lotus parts if they are cheaper and truly equivalent. Those X-reference lists are not secret and I imagine they've been through shortages of parts from Lotus even when the Europa wasn't so old and may have had to be creative.

If you pay a little more from the usual suspects, you could consider it a finder's fee, or a research fee, or even a loyalty fee. You might be able to save a $ here or there by buying the equivalent part at Moss Motors, but I doubt you'd save that much and I think it does hurt the lower volume Lotus parts suppliers since they don't have as much room to maneuver as the bigger BL parts outlets like Moss or Victoria British. You can get a Triumph part from lots of places, but you can't get a Lotus part at that many.

I would also suggest that Dave Bean might be a good place to start your parts search. Dave recently lost ALL of his personal possessions in a fire. Certainly a lot of that will be covered by insurance, but I'm willing to bet that a lot will not. Dave has a lot of interesting parts and experience that most people don't have (in some ways similar to Richard at Banks but certainly not the depth of experience with Europas that Richard has). People like Dave, Richard, and Ray have experience with Europas that you'll never find anywhere else. Sometimes, the part is just the start of the conversation.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #8 on: Sunday,January 24, 2016, 12:52:19 PM »
"I asked him if he had the door light switches, he said they were no longer available and to let him know if I find a close match."

RD sells a replacement that can be made to work.  I made of plates that ,watched the original Europa design and soldered on a nut that the RD until screws into.  Then you just have to solder on a ground wire.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #9 on: Sunday,January 24, 2016, 11:54:29 PM »
If you pay a little more from the usual suspects, you could consider it a finder's fee, or a research fee, or even a loyalty fee. You might be able to save a $ here or there by buying the equivalent part at Moss Motors, but I doubt you'd save that much and I think it does hurt the lower volume Lotus parts suppliers since they don't have as much room to maneuver as the bigger BL parts outlets like Moss or Victoria British. You can get a Triumph part from lots of places, but you can't get a Lotus part at that many.

That's pretty much my take on it and let's face it,  Rimmer Brothers & Moss are only there because they're specialists in their respective fields which happen to have larger markets.  Strangely our specialists aren't always more expensive even for general engineering items. A couple of years ago I wanted to do the rear bearings on the Elan and the cheapest supplier for decent bearings was....   Chris Neil Sportscars. 

Parts supply in the UK is now the best I've known in all my Lotus ownership, and that's undoubtedly down to the growth of UK (and other  :)  ) specialists.  If you'd told me in 1980 that one day I would be able to buy a brand new cylinder head, rear hub carriers or disc brake conversion kits then I would have asked for some of whatever you were smoking.  But now 30-odd years later, you can.

Back in the late 70s/early 80s you simply couldn't walk into a Lotus dealer and buy parts off the shelf, they always seemed to be "special order".  Lotus were moving upmarket and away from the kit car origins so if they had an old part on their shelf they'd sell it, but if not.....    tough.   They (Lotus) even made the position worse by sending lawyers after some specialists and it became very common to see "We do not sell Lotus Parts" written above the counter in one well-known supplier back in the day. 

So yeah, I also have a soft spot for the guys that stuck at it.

Brian

Offline Lou Drozdowski

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #10 on: Monday,January 25, 2016, 06:58:15 AM »
Sometimes, you get what you pay for, and I for one am truly thankful that 40 years on, you can still source some experts to help you fill your needs. Just spoke to Richard at Banks this morning, to confirm an order and chat about all the snow here. The bottom line for me is the customer experience. Like any business, it is how you are treated irrespective of costs. Sure, there will be situations where you will have to resort to looking for more effective ways to find a solution, like fabrication or taking chances at times like ebay or vendors you might not be familiar with.
Look, most Europa owners are a rare breed anyway, lets not squabble about... we all need each other in the long run. ld   

Offline blasterdad

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #11 on: Monday,January 25, 2016, 11:19:37 AM »
Just spoke to Richard at Banks this morning, to confirm an order and chat about all the snow here. The bottom line for me is the customer experience. Like any business, it is how you are treated irrespective of costs.   

 :I-agree:

When I bought my new radius arms from Banks I thought it was the coolest thing ever! (I don't get out much ::)) Not only Did Banks have the best price I could find, I got to call overseas & talk to Richard... Priceless.

Offline andy harwood

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Re: Lotus Europa parts suppliers...
« Reply #12 on: Monday,January 25, 2016, 05:28:00 PM »
Just spoke to Richard at Banks this morning, to confirm an order and chat about all the snow here. The bottom line for me is the customer experience. Like any business, it is how you are treated irrespective of costs.   

Actually, spoke with Richard myself today. Have been in communication with him since before Christmas about a NG3. Lou is correct, speaking with Richard is a pleasure. Every Lotus supplier - Dave Bean, RDent, has been a pleasure to deal with and very helpful with my questions (Europa newbie here).
For me, considering leg work finding a NG3 here, having it rebuilt here, shipping back and forth, I thought Bank's price was reasonable.
These cars are a labor of love for us. I'm sure for our suppliers, it's a bit of the same too.
I'll keep supporting them, but also will pick up bits elsewhere - I think that is just inherent in owning a Europa.
Kinda like a dog marking his territory...