Lost my confidence...

[katanaman]

  Hi.  I am still working on the Europa, but have now lost my confidence.  I have previous experience with the MG Experience website as my MGB taught me all I know about British humor.  I have overcome a lot of wiring and wiring harness issues but they have taken up a lot of time -- a lot more than they had to, due to wiring harness severing during a rear clip replacement, and various black and red paint applications, cluttering just which colors the wires were originally, before they were severed and replaced by wires of the wrong colors.  !!!  And, the previous owner isn't saying why all of the instruments were all disconnected, either.  Or why someone had soldered cross wires over the back contacts of a few of the rocker switches, some of which don't operate correctly (go figure!), now. 
  But mostly, now I am having trouble figuring out the correct tune-up procedure for the 12A Mazda engine, which during its tenure had several differing takes as to the correct route for tune.  Coupled with a so-called professional installation which was obviously cut short, before completion.  Cut short enough, that I have no idea what routings, switch installations, and otherwise was intended for that extra radiator, which has also got the auxiliary fan.  Or if it really has the capacity to responsibly cool that newer Mazda powerplant.  The wires which were to connect to the sensor on the side of the radiator are missing, and I can't find them.
  I am faltering in confidence, and feel like giving up.  I have contacted the previous owner and complained to him that he did claim that the car starts and drives.  But, I am also dealing with a car that has never had a wired hook-up for both the coolant temperature sending unit, or the oil pressure sending unit.  I really have doubts that the car ever operated after that Mazda engine conversion.  Several aspects of it are just brilliant.  The relocation of the heater control to the driver's side frame member.  The wonderfully welded up exhaust system.  The thoughtful integration of that extra radiator.  But, seeing all of the wiring harness behind the dash unhooked, it is obvious that the conversion people intended to complete a switch for all of those radiator fans, and never were allowed to finish it.  I feel now that I am the one holding the bag, so to speak, of liability of the judgement of those who conceived this conversion.
  Seems easier for me to have the previous owner take it back.  I do know that I lack engineering know-how for finishing all of this, but feel that a car advertised as "starts and drives" would have seen these issues dealt with.   I am going to see if I can get the previous owner to fund a trip to a race fabricator shop to help me deal with these issues, or I will probably abandon the project.  It was well conceived, and I don't think that the fellow I bought it from really realized that this conversion doesn't have a successful operating history.  He probably has been towing it around, like I have.
  What would you do?

[benbeames]

Having been brought to near tears by my "ordinary" Europa, and the smaller difficulties of buying anjapanese domestic market engine for it who's parts don't always line up with US versions and who's wiring harness was hacked up when I received it, I think I understand how you feel.  On a personal level, taking a forced break from the car for a few days may give you enough rest to regain some confidence. "Tiredness makes cowards of us all."  Unfortunately if you're neurotic like me you won't get much rest because you'll still be feeling the weight of the burden your project has become.

That said, so far, every time I've hit a brick wall, I've found someone somewhere (often on the Internet) who is expert enough and kind enough to help me through it.  There has to be people out there who know your 12a well enough to give you some guidance.  I actually know two people who run rotary engines in their racing Europas. If you'd like I can get you an email address of one of them.

If you persevere I'm sure you can over come these obsticles, even if it it takes longer than anyone would like.  Of course if you do overcome these obsticles and keep the car, you're just buying time until the next catastrophe .  My car has institutionalized me , and now I like working on projects on it more then I like driving it. What the heck is wrong with me!?!?!?!?!

[EuropaTC]

A difficult one, and in truth only you can answer the question. I think it's fair to say that every enthusiast hits these sorts of walls and depths of despair. Mine was with a wooden chassis Marcos and quite unashamedly I remember just sitting on the garage floor and looking at it for ages, not knowing what to do next.  So I think I understand how you feel.

It does sound as it it's never driven. It also sounds like the DPO hasn't got much idea of how to complete the conversion either, and simply wants to off-load the car onto someone else although I realise that I could be doing him a great disservice by that comment. 

So what to do ?

I suspect that going for professional help to get it running is going to cost lots, maybe as much again or more than you've already spent. You've clearly got some ability and knowledge so don't put yourself down about what you can do yourself, I think the real question is, in your heart, do you want to ?

The car clearly has problems. Engine transplants are always trouble the first time round and need a lot of engineering expertise to make a safe car. If you're treading a well worn path that's ok because as Ben says, there's usually someone around to help. If you're trail-blazing then I'd say you need some good fabrication & design skills behind you.  I'll be quite honest, my take would be that I'd pull the engine out and either replace it with the OEM renault or follow the paths made by others for the toyota, zetec or a simple 4-pot ford like the twink.

After that, it's not so bad. The electrics are very simple although at first sight they can overwhelm you. Back to basics, you need lights, signals, horn, a second set of working instruments and then some engine electrics for ignition, fuel pump (if needed) and cooling fans.  The first ones are simple circuits, a fuel pump and cooling fan can also be simple manually switched circuits. (mine is).  If you want a thermostatically controlled coolant fan then I'd just install an aftermarket one that comes complete with fan, motor & senders as a matched set with the sensor usually mounted in the coolant pipes. The advantage is it works and ignores anything coming from the engine block for now.

Engine electrics are just down to the engine you're using and if it has simple systems like the OEM renault, it's very basic and like your previous MG experiences. Likewise the Twink or a simple 4-pot ford from the era will be ok. Some guys here have zetecs and no doubt will have been through the mill on sorting theirs out, so again some help. 

My guess would be that the cars electrics have been hacked so much because the DPO found that the instruments (oil, temperature, revs) wouldn't work with the senders from the mazda and that's trail blazing again.   If you want to retain the mazda, then I think you need the workshop manual for the engine/car it came from, plus some help from Mazda forums with maybe some info on the voltages coming from sensors, etc, to see how they compare with the Lotus instruments.

It's a lot of work and I for one am not going to push you towards "you must finish it" because in the cold light of day, it may well be sensible to return the car as "not as described" and look for another one.  It's something only you can decide, but whichever way you go I'm sure you'll get help from the enthusiasts on here.

Brian

[katanaman]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses.  I should add that I am at this point with my sister's gracious family.  But... my home is 1100 miles distant, the weather there is much more agreeable, but mostly, my long suffering wife is there!!!  I am still waiting a response from the other of the two partners with the car, but I will try more agressively tomorrow.  I want to go home!  I looked at the Lotus Europa camping posting, and am rather unconvinced that I'll get there any time soon.  But, in the duffel that Greyhound lugged down here for me was my long time friend "1/2 dome tent" that was my constant companion when I rode my bicycle from the Seattle area to Tijuana in 1984.  It is used to being used in this neighborhood!  If I pull this off...

[Grumblebuns]

Truth in advertising or lack of in this case by the previous owner. Did you not see all of these issues when you looked over the car during the inspection? The car was advertised as drivable, how was the test drive? I see weeks of work ahead of you just sorting out the wiring harness.
If the PO will not take back the car, to me this would be you best option but probably not going to happen, rent a truck and trailer and tow this poor puppy home.

If you need a place to store this disaster while you decide what to do, let me know. You can store it at my place down in the Temecula area.
Owner of four Europas, soon to be five, next week.

JT

[benbeames]

I forgot that you were away for home with the car right now. Arrggh.  I'm going to have nightmares about this situation.  Let us know if there's anything we can do to help.

[EuropaTC]

Owner of four Europas, soon to be five, next week.

4 Europas !!!! now either that's a sign of oncoming madness or you''re simply too greedy ! 

Heck, I thought I was doing well with my toybox, but you've got me beat. How come 4 Europas ? Do you just pick them up as they come along and can't bear to part with any, or have you converted them to different specs (road, track, race, etc ) ?  Whatever the reasoning, I think I'm jealous.

Brian

[cal44]

Well, since you have been in Moreno Valley during a hot spell and you have a car that has you hot under the collar.......
hell is looking pretty good right now................

Chances of that guy taking back the car are slim, I would be dumb founded if that happened.  Not the end of the world as I do things all the time I wish I hadn't, it's my M.O

So.....upward and onward.   Get the little dear home when possible.  If you can't leave it at the family homestead, take JT up on his offer (very nice) to hold it for you.  I know JT and he is a standup guy.

Mike

[Grumblebuns]

Thanks for the personal endorsement Mike.  I'll send pictures when I pick it up my new S2.

Brian, understand the four Europas have been collected over a 34 year period to occupy my time during retirement.

Getting back to the OP's predicament, he's 1100 miles from home trying to get bastardized Europa in shape to drive home probably working in someone elses driveway.  Trying to work on a non-molested Europa is hard enough to make roadworthy but an unfinished conversion project,
gotta get realistic. To me the best option is to trailer it home. Not the end of the world but there are viable options.

The offer to store the car at my place still stands, I have the S2 workshop manual, working room and a 30"X36" colorized wiring diagram to work from.

JT

[katanaman]

Hey, Ben!  I am desperate!  I'll take that e-mail address if you can arrange it.  I am definitely not getting Mazda 12A info any other way.  I did find the wiring to that extra radiator, but am still in the process of getting the manual override operational.  Apparently, a number stamped into the side of the distributor is important to determine the correct tune-up procedure.  The number on mine is 1881T5T001 78 E3.  I think...  I had to use the dirty rag to bring up what I hoped are all of the characters in the numeral sequence...  Then, of course, use a mirror on an extension to wrap around it, and these are the only figures I saw.  Today, I am working on disabling the "headlamp dip switch" as there is now no position that I can place the headlight switch that will cut power to the headlights.  Unhooking them doesn't, either.  A look at my laminated wiring chart points to my already broken dip switch as a probable suspect.  Once I can effectively kill them, I will test the extra switch apparently the "professional installers" intended to act as that manual override.  I am amazed, at this point, that the workshop manual skips mention of, for instance, the 90 degree elbowed hoses that hook the heater core to the transfer pipes.  Then, of course, they show up, even with pictures, in the parts manual!  Mine look ancient...

[benbeames]

I just PM'd you.  Sorry for the slow response, I've been busy the past few days with guests and what not.