Tracing Fuel Leaks - Keep a Fire Extinguisher Close By.

[4129R]

Recently I have had lots of fuel pump problems with 4688R. In the end, I bought a new pump.

When I fitted the pump, with the engine running, fuel was showing around the perimeter of the pump, where the two halves sandwich the diaphragm, held together with 6 screws.

In the end, that leak was caused by a faulty connection between the outlet pipe, and the outlet port. I fixed that with a new connector which I had lying around.

Next problem fuel was not flowing into the two 40DCOE Webers and the engine ran out of fuel, even though the pump was pumping fuel down the outlet pipe.

So I cleaned the Webers where the fuel enters through the banjos, including the filter and the valve controlled by the float.

I assembled the Webers, started the engine, and looked for leaks. Another leak appeared, this time from the brass union holding the filter in place, just after the banjo connection.

The engine had been running for a while, and before I knew it, whoomph, the petrol caught light below the Webers, ignited by the heat of the exhaust pipe.

After what seemed ages, I found my CO2 fire extinguisher, and after only a 2 second burst of CO2, the fire was out.

The damage appears only to be to the wiring loom, which I can easily fix, as I have lots of spare wires in all the correct colours and sizes from old stripped down looms.

Moral of the story, when tracing fuel leaks, get the fire extinguisher out next to the car ready to use.

It could have been far worse if the fibreglass had caught light, involving the Europa, the huge garage, and the GT40 parked next to the Europa.

[BDA]

That must have been harrowing! I’m glad that the damage was minimal as you are right, it could have been much worse!

Your advice is very valuable!

[Pfreen]

That story reminds me of an event I had when working on my sister's Renault 16 when I was 16 or so.
I had done a tune up and changed the fuel filter.  I needed to make sure the fuel filter was not leaking after changing it.  It was way below the carb beneath the ignition wires.  So with the engine idling and armed with a flashlight, I discovered it was leaking.  Instantly, vavoom, it was idling on fire and I had no eyebrows.  I shut the car off and put the fire out.

No real damage, maybe a couple of wires needed to be replaced.

However, the need for having a fire extinguisher close at hand is a must.

[4129R]

Just as well that I was expecting and looking for fuel leaks.

If I had been driving it, it would be a burned out wreck now.

[My S1]

You fellas are scaring the @#$% outa me.  Mine is leaking around the cover plate so I presumable need to rebuild it.  Is anyone making a first rate "identical" replacement pump?

[Pfreen]

Not that I know of.  I know someone who bought a replacement from one of our usual suppliers that put out 7 psi and caused the the cabs to overflow fuel.  I personally have an electric pump, but they are not perfect either.
I would measure the fuel pressure out of the mechanical pump and fit a pressure regulator if needed.

[jbcollier]

How about reasonably close?

https://www.renault16shop.com/website/index.php?ProductCategory=4856865&Index=1

And, good that you're scared as well you should be.  Lots and lots of Europas burned up.  At the very least, carry a fire extinguisher!

[4129R]

The worst case scenario:-

https://news.sky.com/story/luton-airport-car-park-to-be-demolished-after-fire-that-damaged-hundreds-of-vehicles-12997420

That fire was caused by a diesel car catching fire near the top floor of the car park.

[kram350kram]

I think this fire was caused by a Range Rover hybrid. Lithium battery apparently spotaneously combusted which got the fuel going. I guess battery powered cars have there leaks too.

[4129R]

I think this fire was caused by a Range Rover hybrid. Lithium battery apparently spontaneously combusted which got the fuel going. I guess battery powered cars have their leaks too.

That fire took out very many cars not only by fire damage, but also by falling concrete, and even if your car was not damaged, many were unable to be retrieved as the floor had gone.

The cost of that must be enormous, they say 1200 cars were damaged at an average of say £30,000 each = around £36,000,000, plus I don't think a multi storey car park comes too cheap !

[dakazman]

  Interesting and downright scary topic.
   I've only had two fire incidents in 45 years in both ground vehicles and aircraft.
  I can only say what YOU do is what determines the outcome. I was awarded some accommodations on one. The other shear luck nobody was injured.  I'll leave it there.
 Have a bottle nearby.
 Dakazman

[Pfreen]

An interesting topic.  When I was at Chrysler in the late 70's, we had a hydrogen car in my research group.  A converted Dodge Omni with a Volkswagen 1.7 L Rabbit engine.  The car had just bottles in the back.  Anyway, a hydrogen fire has no color, so it could be on fire and you would not know it.  We never had one thank goodness, but people would vacate the area when we were around with that car.  People were really scared of it.  The good thing about hydrogen is is much lighter than air so it rises quickly.

Not so with methanol fuel used in the Indy cars.

[GavinT]

Phew, you're a lucky duck, 4129R.

I recall an incident from a member (?) who was filling his car with fuel, pulled the nozzle out and accidentally spilled some down the engine cover vent and onto the exhaust. He got it extinguished quickly with minimal damage because he was on the spot.

Then there's the numerous stories of foam filter socks on Webers that become soaked in fuel – one backfire later lights them up.

But yes, it's worth nurturing a little paranoia about fuel leaks in a plastic car.

[4129R]

Just a PS on my fire in the engine bay.

The car has been in the garage all winter with the 40DCOEs disconnected, as I had to repair the wiring loom underneath the carbs, as it was the apparently only thing damaged by the heat of the fire.

BUT.

When I put the 2 x 40DCOEs back on after the loom was repaired, the engine would not start, no fuel was getting into the engine even though the float chambers appeared to be full.

I looked up on-line and the consensus was that the petrol evaporates and leaves the jets blocked. As the main jets are only 0.125mm in diameter, it would not need much to clog the jets. So I took all the jets out, and used electrical fuse wire to clean out the small holes in the jets and the emulsion tubes.

This still did not start the engine. I squirted fuel into the open butterflies with 4 x syringes, it fired, ran for a few seconds, then stopped. No fuel getting in from the carbs.

Pumping the throttle would make it run for about 2 seconds only.

I pulled the carbs apart, drained and cleaned all the internals, still nothing. What could have happened to change things? The engine started easy enough before the fire. My last resort was the small plastic fuel filters just downstream of the banjos. They looked normal, but they might have been damaged by the heat, the mesh is very fine, what could have happened?

So I changed the filters with those in another set of 40 DCOEs which I had, which were spares only scrap. The engine straight away bust into life. The heat must have damaged the plastic mesh of the filters, even though they looked normal.

This is unlikely to be of help to any out there, but if your 40DCOEs are not getting the fuel into the engine, it would be worth checking the filters, they are under a 17mm brass nut next to the banjo on the float chamber lid.