More Cardone questions!

[jjbunn]

I'm unsure how to tackle the brake lines to the Cardone 13-1777. The tech article says the Cardone has "M10x1.25 fittings with double flare, the stock end at the three ways junction uses 3/8-24 with bubble flares". On my car, the existing brake lines at the MC end have 3/8-24 male on one, and 7/16-20 on the other. Ideally I'd like a 3/8-24 female to M10x1.25 male adapter and a 7/16-20 to M10x1.25 adapter, but extensive Googling draws a blank - too peculiar? Another alternative is to make new brake lines, or replace the MC end fittings on the existing lines. I haven't got the equipment or skills to make either 

What do folks recommend I do?

[EuropaTC]

I had a similar problem of mixed metric & imperial fittings. My solution was to make new lines with the appropriate fitting on either end, and I suspect that's where you'll end up.  Making new lines isn't a big deal, if you can swap out a master cylinder and restore your braking system, then you will be able to make new lines, trust me 

If you've never made lines before then my comments would be;

1. buy a good quality flaring tool, not a cheap one from Ebay. I've got a cheap one for making flares in larger tubing and it's a real pain to use, but the more expensive flare tool I bought for brake lines alone is a 100% every time job. Also buy a small pipe cutter normally used for domestic copper heating tubes (1" max is ideal) as you'll get a perfect cut every time and getting the cut end square and clean is important to the process. 
2. Don't use steel tubing because it's hard work.  If the line will be subject to severe vibration then use Kunifer, an alloy of copper and nickel which is easier to work than steel, won't corrode but has a better fatigue life than pure copper alone.
3. If the line is well supported (clipped to a frame, etc,) then I use plain copper. It is very easy to work and generally a 100% success rate. There were fatigue failures with copper tubing on lorries/trucks due to vibration, so it must be well supported or a short length.

I'm sure there will be videos on the net about doing this, but if not I can easily post photos of the tools I use and how they work.

Brian

[Roger]

Pure copper for brake pipes is probably not legal in CA, cunifer is a better bet.
I'll bet there's a shop that can make up lines for you, that's really the only way to go. Keep clear of adapters if you don't really know what you're doing.

[Grumblebuns]

Before installing the Cardone MC, I had never run new brake lines before. These are my comments from my experience.
1. As Brian stated, a good flaring tool is the key to success in forming usable flares. I used up several feet of brake line unsuccessfully trying to make flares using the standard clamp down wingnut tool. After each flare ending up worse than the one before, I gave up and ordered the expensive Eastwood brake tool.

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html

The best investment I ever made; perfect flares everytime.

2. Again as previously stated, use cunifer (kunifer?). It will make your life so much easier in bending brake lines in tight quarters.

3. At the MC, you'll have to make your bend as tight as possible without crimping the line in order for the line to clear the spare tire. I'm still not happy with my current bend and may try to make another attempt. It helps if your M10 fitting is short. The fitting I'm using is around 0.75" long, if you can find a shorter fitting it will help greatly.

4. If you don't feel like buying the brake line tools, have a shop make the lines for you. Bring the OEM lines and the Cardone with you and have the shop make and equivalent one for the Cardone with the correct fittings. With the Cardone MC being slightly shorter in length, you may have to make minor bend adjustment to make the line fit.
 

Joji Tokumoto 

[Bainford]

Another thumbs up for the brake line tool Joji linked to. I have a reasonable amount of experience with steel brake lines, but decided to give the cunifer material a try. With my old double flaring tool I could not get a decent flare on the cunifer lines despite many tries and tweaks to my process. So I ordered the Eastwood item and just received it a month ago. I haven't really tried it out in anger yet, but a couple of test flares on cunifer lines were perfect right out of the box.

As others have suggested, fitting custom brake lines is likely the best way forward. If you try this yourself, buy a bit of extra brake line material for practicing. Practice both double flare and bubble flare until you can perform each reliably. It sucks to do a great flare on one end, get the line all bent and shaped to fit, then screw up the flare at the other end.

I would also caution, as someone else has, that copper lines may not be legal in all areas. I am quite certain that they are not here in this area any more.

[EuropaTC]

Without wishing to go too far off topic, it's interesting your comments on copper lines being illegal over there. Is it due to potential work hardening/fatigue on unsupported lines that's the reason for the ban ? 

Brian

ps - I've no axe to grind here, I have a roll of each in my workshop but I'm interested to learn why a country/state would go as far as banning the use of it in these applications.

[jbcollier]

If you mean pure copper lines such as gas fitters and plumbers use, then yes, they are illegal and dangerous.  Pure copper lines easily work harden if subject to vibration, and, can burst at high brake system pressures.  Copper/nickel alloys are legal, much stronger than copper and much easier to work with than steel.

[Bainford]

Yeah Brian, as JB said. Even when they were legal here (I had copper lines fitted to the rear of my first car) they were legal on the rear only, presumably for the same reason. Even then, they were not legal in any position for vehicles over a certain weight, apparently due to their lesser burst strength.

[3929R]

A couple of years ago I fitted a Nissan F10 MC to my Special.  It required routing the lines from the right  (original) side to the left side of the MC.  My lines were/are in great shape so I kept them and plumbed an adapter.

The bending tool I used was a cheapie from Harbor Freight.  I don't remember what flaring tool I used but I do remember the first one I tried was cheap and did not work very well.  Best to start with a good one.  At least around here, I believe you can borrow flaring tools from auto parts stores. 

I am not a mechanic.  I learned to flare by watching You Tube videos and practicing on a scrap piece of line.  It wasn't terribly hard, but took a bit of practice. 

Good luck.