Question about Gordini engines

[LotusEuropa]

Hi all,

I just had a phone conversation with someone who is selling his '69 S2 project car (#541675).
Although I am / was not interested in another project car , I am curious if this car would fit in my garage

It turned out that the car had been sitting since 1975 and was partially disassembled. Is is fitted with a ~1600cc crossflow engine (Gordini?).

And it is the engine which is I want to ask you for:
Does a Gordini-engine adds value to the car in general? Is an Gordini S2 more popular than the equal but standard-engined cars?

Sorry for not having additional information about the engine.

Regards
Raphael

[gideon]

The short answer is maybe.  The Renault crossflow is the period engine you want in a series 2 Europa, unless you like originality above all.  There are a few versions of the Renault crossflow, so it's worth finding out exactly which one it is.  Here are links to a couple of pages with information about versions of those engines

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1748.msg16120#msg16120
http://www.syer.net/engine.htm

[jbcollier]

Eventually completely original cars will have the most value.  We're not there yet but things seem to be going that way quite quickly.  Then it's up to you to decide what you want.  My S1 has a crossflow and I'm delighted with its performance.  I have no plans to fit the original engine and transaxle but I have kept them, along with a host of other original parts, so the next owners have their options open.

[LotusEuropa]

Thank you, I still wonder why they were installed so often back then.
How about the power output and performance numbers compared to the standard engine cars?

Deep inside I am more on the originals side than on the modified one, I believe.
So having at least the original engine with the car would be great. But never say never.

@gideon great archive with information someone could need. Thank you for this post!

Regards
Raphael

[jbcollier]

The stock Europa engines put out about 80 hp.  They can be modified to 100 hp fairly easily (just costs money) and are still street-able.  The most I have seen from an wedge engine is 140hp and it was a beast and not at all happy on the street.

The crossflow was available stock with hp from 85 to 125. Crate race engines from 130 to 170 hp. They can be modified to make a very nice street engine up to 150hp.  I have seen 200hp engines but, again, not for the street.  Mine puts out about 130-140 and has lots of low down torque.  You rev it to enjoy it, not because you have to.

The crossflow is considered a nice period performance mod.  Unlike, say, a Toyota 4AG transplant (not against them either BTW, whatever floats your b--).  Crossflows were a common fitment back in the day.  Even a few dealers and distributors did them up for sale.

[Richard48Y]

I bought my S2 largely due to it being a cross-flow with Webers.
The price was fair and the car being mostly intact also helped.
Cross-flow being an in-period mod I have no "Originality" issues with it.
My car does have some minor competition history as a hill-climber.
Unsure of power output but I hope for around 120 HP.

[Mecky]

I think a stock Lotus Europa S1 or S2 is quite a rare thing to come across. At least in Germany, I have not seen many. Not even on the internet. That's why cars in completely stock condition (matching numbers) will indeed increase in value. I'm not sure, if it's possible to receive data about the matching numbers from the official Lotus archive, but if you are able to prove that your car has the original engine and gearbox (in good working order), this will be the best bet in terms of value.

Lotus Europa enthusiasts are not so much focussed on value and with it originality (compared to Porsche guys for example). A Lotus Europa from 1968 will never reach the same, not even a similar value compared to a 1968 Porsche 911. Instead, many Lotus guys favour driving fun more than original condition. That's why I think that a cross flow Renault engine is also a very good argument, which makes a Lotus Europa attractive for possible buyers, which is equivalent to value. In Germany, you can easily register a cross flow Europa S2 for the historic number plate, because it's contemporary tuning. The Swiss importer of Lotus even put this modification up for sale and named it Lotus Europa Hemi 807. But as far as I know, only in quite small numbers.

As the S1 and S2 Europas were denounced "underpowered" even by the contemporary motor press, this reputation will apply even more today. Lotus got rid of this by fitting the TC and Big Valve engines to the successor. And the owners of S1 und S2 Europas tried to improve their cars on their own. Renault cross flow engines where plug & play conversions and easy to get. But I don't think that many of these conversions received actual Gordini engines. The Gordini valve covers were also easy to get, but original Gordini engines weren't. Thus, most of them will be just ordinary R16, R17 or Fuego engines with a Gordini badge or valve cover.

Nonetheless, the Renault cross flow engine is a great conversion for the Europa S1 or S2. It's reasonably priced, light (lighter than the TC) and can also deliver reasonable power output. As jbcollier said, you can put a 125 HP engine into the car and it's not even tuned. You can also use the Renault engine for racing, if you want. In this case, a powerful engine (around 160 HP) will not be cheap, but still much cheaper than a TC with the same power. Of course, you'll not reach 190 HP as the TC, but the Renault engine had major success in the Alpine Renault A110 in the early 70s. Thus, nothing you need to be shy about.

[Richard48Y]

I am pestered to sell mine often, but refuse the offers.
When I point out that similar cars are available for less money the response is, "But yours has the engine I want".
From what I see the Crossflow is fairly rare and and commands a premium.
With some tuning bits added this becomes even more true.

[jbcollier]

Crossflow engines are getting rare not because they were rare, they made lots, just that the usual passage of time means most of them were scrapped.  Nice, well designed and light engine.  "Gordini" is a bit of a misnomer as he had little to with them by then.