Type 47 door installation

[Fulvia-hf]

hello,
When I bought my S1A 12 years ago it was fitted with the more practical S2 doors. I decided it had to be returned to S1 spec. Not the S1A spec with storable take out windows but the type 47 doors with trailing edge opening Lexan windows. I bought a pair of Banks S1 replica doors a few years ago and started just the other week with fitting them.
They are oversize on all sides so careful but labour intensive shaving, fitting, shaving, fitting, shaving and fitting is necessary. I think I did a reasonable job as it neatly fits the dooropening exept for the front window frame upper corner which sits about 8mm below the roofline. I think this is due to either tolerances or maybe wrong storage. Can't be sure but nonetheless I need to cut the doorframe at the base, force the top outwards and relaminate the cut.
I have a few questions:
-Did the doors came with a door catch near the hinges to prevent a surge of wind from damaging an open door?

-I would like to fit some kind of chrome/stainless/aluminium trim around the opening Lexan glass to visually extend the plastic chrome trim around the wingshield to the side windows. I really like the Lancia Stratos design were the windshield and the side windows combine to give the roof of the car a real motorcycle helmet visor look. The S1 europa has a similar design which was lost with the S2. Has anyone fitted metal trim around the windows and how did they do it?

-How can you get a wind and rain tight seal between the Type 47 Lexan windows and the doorframe? It seems there is not an awful lot if room for a seal of any kind.

-How was this lexan window attached to the fwd side of the doorframe in the original type 47?

Cheers,

William

[Fulvia-hf]

is there really no one in this active community who has installed S1/type47 doors in his Europa?
Hope some one can help out with his experience

[BDA]

Sorry no one got back to you but I think some may have been put off by your reference to 47s in case there was something different about them. However, you also referred to S1s so I'll tell you the little I know about it.

The S1/S2 workshop manual gives instructions on installing doors (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2work/b/s2b.pdf - one should not overlook the great information available from the same site at http://lotus-europa.com/manuals). Of course those instructions only refer to the Lotus hinges. If you decide to keep the Lotus style hinges, make sure you get the stainless steel versions (in case carbon steel versions are still out there). I know nothing about these. Lotus Supplies sells a brass hinge kit (https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/bodywork/fittings-bodywork/door-hinge-brass-per-door/) that is a bit more flexible than the Lotus style hinges as it allows you to take the door and only requires vertical adjustment when the door is reinstalled. I only know about these so I cannot compare them. This kit is fairly straight forward. There is an outer part that is snugged into the square holes in the door and an inner part that screws into it and into the bobbins in the body. Screwing the inner part up and down adjusts the height of the door. moving the outer part around in the square hold adjusts the horizontal location of the door.

Again, speaking only of the Lotus Supplies type hinges, I found it helpful to make fine horizontal adjustments by fairly lightly snugging the outer parts, and using a dead blow hammer covered with a thick towel to "persuade" the door to move in the direction I needed. Then tighten the lock nuts when satisfied. I am in no way an expert at this - as the adjustment of my doors attest - but my doors are presentable (and they are something I occasionally work on when the car is on stands). Since I don't know anything about the Lotus style hinges I can only guess that my covered dead blow hammer trick would work with them also.

Adjusting doors can provide many hours of "entertainment"! Good luck!

[Fulvia-hf]

Hi Bda,
thank you for the information on the hinges. Fortunately I'm already past that point and have a great set of adjustable stainless hinges made up. The information I'm looking for is about the trailing edge opening Lexan windows.
Is there someone who has installed those and can comment about weather sealing and wether they keep the rain out when parked. Also if somebody installed some kind of chrome trim I would like to know what they used.

Many thanks!

William

[Nockenwelle]

Hi William,

the sealing on a 47 side window is simply a bonded in foam or rubber strip. Perfectly fine for a race car. Have a look at the pictures showing 47GT54 at Spa.

Klaus

[RoddyMac]

I think the rear latch was discussed a while ago on here, but from what I recall it was an Anglia window latch.  I ended up using some VW bits but fabricated a few pieces to make it look a little closer to what the 47's had. 







I ended up making some actual hinges for the front side as at the time I didn't think the plastic would like flexing, but looking at the stock 47's it looks like the windows can stand up to it.    For the seals I just used some foam weather stripping from a home improvement store, the foam strip has adhesive on one side so was easy to install.  I can tell you that my windows leak, I need to get some taller foam, but it doesn't really bother me as the car is rarely out in the rain. 

As for trim around the window, JB Collier's car has it but his windows are fixed.  But I'm sure you could find some alunimium extrusions that you could bend, cut, miter, etc to fit.  Though that would mean more shaving, grinding and fitting.

[Fulvia-hf]

thanks, this helps. Lotus used Anglia estate window catches. Difficult to get hold of but I managed to find a perfect set a few years ago. I was afraid the weather sealing would be as crude as this. And without a rain gutter water will surely get in and fall on your seat cushion when you open de door after a shower. That's the price of living with exotica I guess;-)

[JR73]

Totally missed this thread (don’t look in the DIY tools section very often) but the forward hinges and rear opening catches can generally be found on small 3 door hatchback type cars that had similarly opening windows - Peugeot 205 GTI springs to mind but I’m sure there are newer cars with a similar setup? I recently saw a modern car with opening rear side doors that had similarly opening windows (cannot think of the car atm…..).

The sealing strip between door and window is just like the one pictured on the 47 - foam tape, like RoddyMac has said it needs to be sufficiently thick enough to compress a little as the window is closed against it to offer some sort of seal. Be careful not to overly pull on the lexan window as they can break if you are trying to deform them too much over the seal….

You can add a ‘rain gutter’ by fixing some ‘D’ rubber seal along the top edge of the door that contacts with the body (hidden when the door shuts) - I have S1/47 doors with fixed lexan windows and use the D rubber seal around where the original door seal was along with the additional ‘gutter’ strip as it closes up any gaps that would otherwise be there.
*edit* just checked and realised that I’ve since moved the gutter strip rubber to be stuck on the body instead of the door, with the door closed the gap is filled.

I’ll try to get a picture if you need it to help explain?

[Fulvia-hf]

Picture might help.
I have purchased pattern Banks doors but they need a lot of persuading to fit. Both doors are now trimmed to fit the door aperture but are not flush on al sides. The front section of the door frame, were it meets the A-pillar sits a fm lower and needs to be cut, bent out and delaminated. Also the Lexan 47 widows are a poor fit. Some strain will be exerted on the hinges when it is closed. trailing edge of those doors have a small indentation for an S2 type doorcatch see attachment). However this indentation needs to be removed when Renault type door catches are used. Cutting and relaminating a highly stressed area like this makes me not very happy.