brake pedal adjustment

[mlg10231]

Hello, I just bought a '69 S2. The brake pedal has about 1.5" of free play before beginning to push the master cylinder. I know the clevis can be removed and the rod adjusted, but can the locknut on the rod be accessed from the interior with a crow's foot wrench or is there another way to make the adjustment? The face of the pedal has also been bent towards the gas pedal making it very awkward to push, so fixing these two items should greatly help the brakes. With it in the current condition, your foot is basically hitting the steering column instead of the pedal.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[BDA]

  mlg10231!!

You should be able to hold that jam nut with a regular open end wrench. If the brake pedal has been bent you may want to take the pedals out and straighten it out. Taking the pedals out does not require you to loosen that jam nut so taking them out is not as big a job as you might imagine.

I’m concerned about that 1.5” brake pedal movement before engaging the brakes. That seems like a lot. That might mean you need to look into the condition of your brake M/C (I’m assuming the reservoir is full) or the rest of your brake system. When you finally do engage the brakes, do they work as you expect? Any leaks? What is the condition of your brake pads and shoes? Are your rear brakes properly adjusted?

[jbcollier]

Do you have a single circuit or dual circuit master cylinder?

The brake pedal is attached to the brake master via pushrod(s) and there is virtually no play in the system.  If there is play, something is wrong/worn.

If you have a dual circuit master, then one circuit could be out and it takes extra travel to activate the remaining circuit.  If is is a small amount extra, it's the rear brakes.  A large amount extra is the front brakes.

[mlg10231]

Thank you for the suggestions. I only got the car last week, so I have not had a chance to inspect the brake linings/shoes. And, I did not realize the rear brakes were not self adjusting. The fluid level is good and there don't appear to be leaks. It is a dual circuit system.  The brakes do seem weak for such a light car, so it may be the rears are not contributing much due to lack of adjustment.

As with any old car you buy, there have been issues that didn't come out before the sale. It sat in WA state during those terrible storms several weeks ago and the floors had water standing in them. Most of the time has been devoted to drying it out and sorting the resulting electrical issues. It is VIN# 652930.

I will make some inspections and get back with you. Thanks again!

[BDA]

I believe the rear drums are self adjusting but it seems I’ve heard of some who have complained about how well they adjusted themselves.

Your brake performance should be good. Do you have brake boosters? Do you know the history of your brake M/C?

[SilverBeast]

I believe rear drums are only self adjusting on Twin Cams (possibly only the Specials), on the rear facing side of the slave cylinder at the top, all the others use a manual adjuster between the shoes at the bottom.

For initial pedal travel I have come to believe that handbrake adjustment is most relevant as if it is backed off too far the shoe is allowed to compress the slave cylinder more, which has to be taken up by the pedal travel.

It's also important to get the metal H shaped shim between the handbrake lever and the brake shoe for the same reason.

[dakazman]

 
  I documented the tear down of the rear brake assembly about here :

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.510

  Hope it helps you.
Dakazman

[SilverBeast]

Do the non TCS rear drums have the H shim between the handbrake lever through the backplate and where it presses on the shoe? Like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Early-ford-rear-brake-shoe-shims-/175062143138?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[BDA]

  I documented the tear down of the rear brake assembly about here :

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.510

  Hope it helps you.
Dakazman

Pro tip: You can give the URL to the specific post you're referring to by right clicking on the title of the post (in this case "Re: 1970 s2 0453R Reassembly") and choosing an option like "Copy Link Address" and paste that in your post. That way, the post you're referring to is at the top so it's easy to find. I used that when building the index to Certified's build thread. I believe the post you're talking about here is this one:

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.msg31255#msg31255

[mlg10231]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will start with checking the rear brakes tonight. The handbrake quickly tightens with only an inch or so of movement at the handle. There is no servo assist and I am not sure of the history of the M/C.

If feels like all of the play is in the linkage. I can tell when the M/C starts to move and the play is all before that. We'll see what happens with adjusting the rears.

As for functionality of the whole brake system, it is hard to tell because you really can't get on the pedal well enough to get good pressure on it.

This car has a Weber 45 doce with a Hermes intake and header. There is no vacuum for the distributor. What timing setting should I use, and should it be set at 1000 rpm like stock?

Thanks!

[jbcollier]

Stock timing is fine.  Set it with the idle as low as possible so you know the advance hasn't started yet.

The 65 has a complicated linkage box that moves the dual master out of the way.  You can see it here:

http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2parts/j/jb.htm

If you think it's play before the master moves, I would check there.

The S1/2/TC don't have the funny "H" piece in the rear brakes.  Just the Special does.  Also, only the Special has (rotten) self-adjusting rear brakes.

If you are pulling the handbrake on, it doesn't move far, and it doesn't make a difference, then the rear brake adjustment is not the issue.

[mlg10231]

Rear brake adjustment is perfect and there is plenty of lining on the shoes. I removed the pedals and the push rod going to the bell crank moves 3/8" before it engages the master cylinder. I don't see how to access the lock nut at the bell crank push rod. It is enclosed in a tapered 4 sided box. Does the M/C have to be removed and then the box removed? Looks like a lot of work. The nice thing is that the pedal easily bent back into its correct location, so if I can get the pushrod set right, it will move the pedal towards the seat away from the steering column and give good access to the pedal, if there is such a thing in a Europa as good pedal access!

[mlg10231]

I took the brake rod cover off the floor board and was able to get a 9/16" crow's foot wrench and a long extension through the hole. By carefully feeling around I found the locknut, got it loose, and backed out the rod not quite 3/8". It took a while to get the locknut tight (you can't see and everything has to be done by feel) but with the pedals re-installed there is just a tiny bit of free play, the pedal is nowhere near the steering column. The brakes now feel and work great and the car can be driven with much higher confidence.

[BDA]

   Glad you got it sorted!

[jbcollier]

Adjust the brake pedal push rod length by feel?  You'll have no problem with the rest of the car!