Author Topic: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy  (Read 1892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rjbaren

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Feb 2018
  • Location: Mundelein, IL
  • Posts: 297
Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 06:20:41 AM »
Hello,  I am new to this forum.  Over 20 years ago I had an S2 Europa.  It was a not a good one so I moved on. 
Simultaneously, I had an 83 Esprit Turbo that I really enjoyed but eventually sold after quite a few years of proud ownership.  I recently have come across a couple of prospective Europa projects for sale.  I am not sure which way to go.  The Twin Cam is more expensive to buy and most likely more expensive to restore.  I am thinking of swapping engines to one of the more updated ones I see in the photos.  Is it a Ford Ztec?  I would also like to do a brake and suspension upgrade and maybe one day even put the car on the track during a track day. 
So, which is the better way to go if I plan on doing all these swaps/upgrades?  Does it matter? The twin cam I am looking at is a 4 speed.  Am I just buying a body for the body, interior, trans, switches and so on, and will I need an aftermarket chassis to put the engine and brakes on?  I am not in a rush to do this and I know it will take a few years to do it right but I have a couple of cars on the line that I may want to move on.  Then again, should I wait for something better based on the advice I receive from this forum.  With the scant info I have given, and with what I plan to do in the restoration build process, which type of car should I consider as a platform, the S2 body or the twin cam body, as I want to start with the right foundational car?  Both are supposed to have sold frames.
Can you guys point me in the right direction?  Thank you.

Offline andy harwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Location: eden, nc usa
  • Posts: 532
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #1 on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 07:01:44 AM »
I'm in the process of swapping in a Zetec & NG3 transaxle into a TCS. For me a slow process, as I don't have much time to devote to it. Some things to consider are;
1. Zetec is popular due to the Twincam bell housing will mate up to the Zetec.
2. The TC/TCS frame will accommodate the Zetec engine with out modification, I think the S2 frame has to be cut into.
3. The Toyota engine conversion seems to be popular into the S2 as there has been support, because of the number converted, and adapter kits made. J. Pels on the yahoo board used (?) to do these kits.

There are more than a few on this forum that have or are doing the conversion, and are a wealth of information.
Hope this little bit of info helped.

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 9,998
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #2 on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 02:24:49 PM »
Since you're considering an engine swap along with some other mods, you should know that the resale value of your car will be less than a similarly prepared original car.

Having said that, I think the Zetec is the best engine swap because as Andy says, there are fewer modifications required and the engine is readily available. In fact I think Ford sells crate Zetecs. I believe there are several different flavors of Zetec DOHC motors but I'm not competent to advise you on which one. One thing you will have to decide is if you're going to use injection or carbs. As Andy says, the Zetec will require the TC bell housing.

I would advise getting an NG3 transaxle. It will bolt directly to the the TC bell housing but there will be some modifications required on the rear hoop for mounting it there as well as new shift linkage. Parts are more available and it should be strong enough for any normally aspirated Zetec you'd drive on the street. They are sometimes available at salvage yards (check out http://car-part.com and https://www.carmonkeys.com. They came from the later model Renault Turbo Fuego). There are also modifications required to the tranny that are explained here: http://www.greytower.com/jon/lotus/europa/gearbox/gearbox.html. Banks (http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php) sells them ready to go (with shift linkage kit and rear mounts)

There are several different rear disk conversions described here: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/ (as well as a lot of other good information including the parts and workshop manuals). Banks also sells a vented front disk kit and rear disk kit.

There are some rear suspension mods that people do. Banks sells a twin link kit and Richard Mann developed his own twin link suspension but it may take a bit to find the particulars on it. Banks, r.d. enterprises (rdent.com), and Spyder (http://www.spydercars.co.uk/category/spyder-products/spyder-lotus-europa-products/) sell tubular front A-arm pieces. Dave Bean probably sells tubular A-arm pieces, too (http://davebean.com).

Spyder, Banks, SJ Sportscars (https://www.sjsportscars.com/home.htm) and probably Dave Bean all sell frames. The Spyder frames are space frame design and support their own rear A-arm suspension. I think they can be had to directly support the NG3. Banks makes their own frames. I suspect everybody else sells Lotus frames.

As for which Europa to use as a platform, I'm not sure it matters much beyond Andy's warning that a Zetec will require some modifications to an S2 frame. The TC should give much better rear 3/4 vision but some don't like the chopped rear wings (I don't have that problem).

My advise is to look over the documentation page I mentioned earlier (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/), the Banks, r.d., and Spyder sites to see what they have for you and ask a lot of questions. Since I have a TC, I can't give you a lot of information specific to them but there are people here who can. I didn't mention an S1 as I think that is a lot more complicated a restoration since its frame is glassed into the body. There are certainly some sources I didn't mention but that is because the ones I did mention are more familiar to me. I don't mean to be exclusionary.

This is a great Europa forum. I think joining the Yahoo lotuseuropa list is valuable, too. One other site that you might find interesting is Dave Anderson's site about his Europa (https://www.prevanders.net/europa/index.html). He extensively documents the things that he did to his car and he did a lot. One thing to note about his car is that it recently sold on Bringatrailer.com and in spite of the interesting and apparently well executed mods, it only sold for $15,000. So I stress, do your mods with your driving enjoyment in mind and forget about any increase in value.

Offline 1970EuropaGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Oct 2018
  • Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
  • Posts: 302
    • Lotus Europa Restoration
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #3 on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 07:27:18 PM »
After many years of looking I bough a 1970 S2. I may or may not modify the car. The main criteria for me was finding a clean example with minimal issues, not easy any more.

Europas are fantastic cars, whether stock or modified. Just have fun. I don't know where I will be heading but that's half the fun.

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 9,998
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #4 on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 07:41:20 PM »
I didn't mean to dissuade rjbaren - or anybody - from modifying whatever car he gets. After all, mine is heavily modified. I just don't want him going into his project thinking that he's going to get any of his money back out of his car when he sells it. I think if he looks at his car and his modifications as a hobby/challenge/project he'll be happy but if he looks at it as an investment, he won't.

Offline 1970EuropaGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Oct 2018
  • Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
  • Posts: 302
    • Lotus Europa Restoration
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #5 on: Sunday,November 04, 2018, 07:45:04 PM »
I didn't mean to dissuade rjbaren - or anybody - from modifying whatever car he gets. After all, mine is heavily modified. I just don't want him going into his project thinking that he's going to get any of his money back out of his car when he sells it. I think if he looks at his car and his modifications as a hobby/challenge/project he'll be happy but if he looks at it as an investment, he won't.
I told my wife that the Europa was a good investment. Quiet all! :beerchug:

Offline rjbaren

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Feb 2018
  • Location: Mundelein, IL
  • Posts: 297
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #6 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 05:07:46 AM »
Wow, thank you for the information.  I heard Banks was selling the business, then I heard he didn't.  I also heard he doesn't email so you have to call.  Can we get all of his stuff here, like bodies and chassis?   Is Spydercars another good source?  Do we have anyplace here like those two outfits in England?

Offline jbcollier

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Posts: 5,978
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #7 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 06:00:31 AM »
No one is building complete Europa bodies other than Banks.

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 9,998
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #8 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 07:14:52 AM »
Richard does not do email so you need to call. He ships to the US regularly and the shipping costs aren't bad. I haven't bought anything as big as a body or a frame but I don't see why he wouldn't ship them. I have bought a fair amount from him over the years, mostly when I was building my car in the very late 90s, but not exclusively. I have always gotten good service, good quality parts, and advice from him.

Richard has been trying to sell his parts business with no success. He had one buyer but after the announcement was made but before he was going to start selling, the deal fell through. I don't know why. My understanding was that he would still be involved with the design, development, and manufacturing of his parts but the sales were to be handled by the other guys, but as I said, the deal fell through so it doesn't really matter any more.

He has had health issues in the past and I have heard some disparaging stories about dealing with him. I don't know how common they are.

I don't think there is anyone on the planet that knows as much about Europas as Richard.

As far as I know, Spyder is a good source. My frame, that I bought in the '80s, is an early example from them so they've been around for a long time.

There is nobody like Richard or Spyder in the states or Canada. r. d. enterprises makes some NLA parts. I suspect Dave Bean has some trick parts of his own (if only because I know they have a machine shop and they built my motor but their website hasn't been updated since it was published so it's hard to know what they have). They have some paper catalogs that are valuable not only for the list of products but also for the technical information in them. Dave Bean, Inc. has been around for a long time (unfortunately the Dave Bean is no longer with us. :( ).

I hope that helps.

Offline 4129R

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: May 2014
  • Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom, not far from Hethel the home of Lotus.
  • Posts: 2,736
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #9 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 08:04:57 AM »
No one is building complete Europa bodies other than Banks.

The place next to Snetterton Race Circuit has all the Lotus moulds for the bodyshells, so they can make you a new one.

Offline JR73

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Apr 2018
  • Location: Merseyside, UK
  • Posts: 307
  • Banks Europa S2
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #10 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 11:26:37 AM »
No one is building complete Europa bodies other than Banks.

The place next to Snetterton Race Circuit has all the Lotus moulds for the bodyshells, so they can make you a new one.

That will be Boss Motors, they have bought the moulds from Lotus over the years as and when they have become available. They don't have moulds for every part ever fitted to all models but the selection is extensive. They can also supply repair sections - as detailed in the workshop manual.
Banks has body and panel moulds for the Twin Cam, the Banks 47 Replica shell, Banks 62 and also genuine type 47 replacements (very different to the Banks 47 Replica). These can also be supplied as repair sections as detailed in the workshop manual.

As BDA has mentioned, Spyder make their own Tubular backbone chassis that has double wishbone rear suspension of their own design - this fits the original shells with little modification and they can accommodate various engine and gearbox options providing you discuss this prior to ordering.

Banks makes their own replacement Lotus chassis for all versions of the Europa and for all gearbox options etc.
They also make their own Tubular backbone chassis, again with double wishbone rear suspension (this is a slightly more track focused design than Spyder and has less camber change as the suspension moves through its range - it works very well on the road also), again they can make it to suit pretty much any engine/gearbox you wish providing you discuss it prior to ordering (may have to supply a block etc whilst the chassis is produced).
Always worth making the phone call to discuss your ideas with Richard, there isn't much he hasn't done to a Europa and can advise on what is likely to work or not!

If you are going down the modified route then it's worth bearing in mind the original ethos of it being a lightweight sports car - I have experienced some very wild versions that ultimately had far too much power and weighed far more than original which ultimately doesn't work that well (but each to their own!)...

Offline 4129R

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: May 2014
  • Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom, not far from Hethel the home of Lotus.
  • Posts: 2,736
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #11 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 11:58:46 AM »
When I bought a rear luggage box from Boss Motors, they were very helpful. Very well made but far too heavy for C.C.

Don't wait too long to deal with them though, the father blows out lots of candles every year, and his son is not far behind.

Their workshop is a Aladdin's cave. They have a S/S Europa chassis there. If I needed one, I would be tempted.

Offline andy harwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Location: eden, nc usa
  • Posts: 532
Re: Newbie wants qucik lowdown on what to buy
« Reply #12 on: Monday,November 05, 2018, 04:32:40 PM »
A Stainless Steel Europa Frame? Oh my! Wonder if my wife would let me hang it on the living room wall? (actually, she would  say I could sleep with it)
See, RJBaren, I knew members would pitching in with info.
LotusJoe has a Zetec primer posted in the tech section, and there are other articles concerning a Zetec swap in.
What BDA referred to about value is true, so do keep that in mind. I've been trying to make as few "permanent" changes to the car as possible - I've kept the original engine and transaxle and other bits in case of a reverse change of mind in the future.


« Last Edit: Monday,November 05, 2018, 04:41:11 PM by andy harwood »