Author Topic: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long  (Read 1468 times)

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Offline Grumblebuns

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Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 01:10:11 PM »
Sometimes you have to re-learn lessons the hard way. This morning after the day warmed up to a decent temperature, I started my S2 for the first time since last summer. It had been sitting in my drive way all this time so it took a bit of coaxing with the choke but it finally started and eventually kept idling without any assistance from me.  I was parked on a slope so I had the rear wheel chocked. Put the car in first, released the parking brake and eased off the clutch. It felt like the brakes were stuck on. The car wasn't moving and the engine almost stalled. Tried it again at a higher RPM and the car finally started moving forward. I drove it to a flat section of the driveway and stepped on the brake pedal. It went straight to the floor, good thing my parking brakes worked. I was supposed to drive the S2 to an open dyno day my friend was hosting at a local Pep Boys this Sunday to test it on the dyno. Looks like it ain't happening. I have an experimental brake master cylinder I've been meaning to install for a while and it's possible I can have the brake job done by Saturday except for a possibly bigger issue. I discovered a small pool of engine oil under the bell housing after I let the engine cool off so I can put the car cover back on. This is a new oil leak for the S2 and I'm suspecting it's coming from the main rear seal.


I won't be able to take a closer look at it until I move the S2 back into the garage which won't be for another few weeks. I'm in the process in replacing a fuel pump in my MR2 which is taking up the space the S2 would normally occupy. The S2 was in driving condition when I parked it. Now it just gave me the finger, serves me right.
 

Offline BDA

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #1 on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 02:10:41 PM »
Bummer! Sorry to hear of your automotive problems! You're probably right that it's the main seal. That's a major ordeal to take all that apart to get to it! Have you investigated your brake issue - are you sure it's the M/C? Whatever it is, I hope it's nothing major and you can get it fixed quickly.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #2 on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 03:53:19 PM »
It may seal up, having 8 vehicles I need to start them every two weeks and run for 1/2 hour. With that said the next time you run it , the leak may seal up . That’s why I let my girls drive them.  lol , it’s the worst of two evils..., even the electrics get weirded out.

Hope you get the brakes worked out !
Dakazman

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #3 on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 05:14:03 PM »
dman, I was going to ask that question about the possibility of seals fixing themselves, I guess I'll find out next time I start it up. I don't see evidence of brake fluid leaks any where so my guess is that the M/C seals are shot. I can replace the master cylinder in my drive way so hopefully, I should be ready to start it up again in a couple of weeks. 

Offline BDA

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #4 on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 06:37:02 PM »
No booster? Fluid could be collecting in it.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #5 on: Friday,March 09, 2018, 11:29:01 PM »
In the old days, seals were often made of leather.  Lack of use could see the leather dry out, shrink and leak.  Get it wet with oil and the leather would expand and start sealing again.  Modern seals?  Not so much.

Offline Certified Lotus

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #6 on: Saturday,March 10, 2018, 02:47:19 AM »
I’m the same as a Dakazman, I’ve got 6 vehicles and all get driven and run every two weeks. Fluids need to be moved around, condensation needs to be removed and the battery needs charging. Plus I live in an area that has wide temperature swings. A sitting mechanical device for any length of time will have its issues, particularly ones with seals.

I have a habit of always testing the brake pedal twice after starting my cars. Been doing it since I was a teenager due to loosing my brakes driving too fast in a Datsun 2000 and having to pass a cop on the road because I couldn’t stop. But that’s a long story.......

Hopefully your oil leak will magically disappear.........


Offline jbcollier

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #7 on: Saturday,March 10, 2018, 08:52:24 AM »
Storage of mechanical devices is a tricky business.  The first question is, for how long?  Storing a vehicle over the winter is completely
different from putting it to bed for a year or two or more.  The oft repeated mistake is having a temporary parking-up turn into decades long neglect.  Have a clear plan on what you will do if the temporary turns into longterm.

The second mistake is repeatedly starting engines and running them for a "short" time.  Combustion gases and water vapour go by the piston rings and mix with the oil.  Over time acids develop which may attack bearings and machined surfaces.  For this reason, it is important to start with fresh oil prior to storage so the oil has maximum levels of acid inhibitors in place.  Repeated running will supply more acids for the oil to deal with.  Over a winter this is not a huge deal but, longer, and the inhibitors will be depleted and the acids will start their work.  Pulled down an engine that had been stored with old oil and run every now and then.  All the crank bearings were smooth and unmarked but right down to the copper, not a single bit of plating remained.

There are other issues such as the crap fuel we have these days, brake fluid being hygroscopic, condensation, etc and what steps are best depends a great deal on local climate.  Research your area and vehicle and go from there.

Here's what I do with my dry climate and heated storage area (no large temperature swings): fuel drained and run out from tanks, carbs, lines and pump, fresh oil, plugs out and oil squirted in, ignition disabled, spun over to get oil pressure and spread oil in combustion chamber.  Over winter?  Plugs back in.  Longer? Plugs left loose and engine spun over every few months until the oil pressure is shown on the gauge.  Even longer and an expensive, complicated engine?  Fill the engine completely with fresh engine oil, right to the very top of the oil fill -- Bugatti owners do this as the engines have roller bearing cranks and gear trains and are hideously expensive to overhaul.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #8 on: Saturday,March 10, 2018, 10:00:45 AM »
JB that is excellent advice .
I know I stated it unclearly but I was going on a small oil puddle where 10 drops looks like a quart.
The first thing a mechanic would do is at least confirm where the leak is coming from .
As for the fuel , I agree 100 percent and all my garage vehicles only get non ethanol gasoline . I see
A definitely cleaner  jets in my motercycle carbs over the ethanol fuel.
The process of Pickleing an engine is mandatory for jet aircraft .
Dakazman

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #9 on: Sunday,March 11, 2018, 01:39:57 PM »
This was suppose to be the day of my S2's first ever dyno run, you all know what happened. Not wanting to waste the opportunity of an open dyno day at the local Pep Boys Speedshop grand opening, I decided to take my Elise. The results pretty much confirmed what I expected, about 176 hp at around 8k, 8.5 is redline. Weather conditions were pretty good, it had rained the night before but in the morning had stopped raining and was still pretty cool. There is nothing wrong with the motor  :beerchug:

I was hoping to get a baseline reading for my S2 before I start playing with the Mikuni HSR carburator conversion this summer. I'll have to locate a speed shop with a dyno once I get the S2 back on the road for that.

Offline BDA

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #10 on: Sunday,March 11, 2018, 02:43:46 PM »
Very cool, Joji! It's interesting that there's a small dip at about 6200 rpm.

I have to say that an Elise with a hard top on is much more difficult to get in than my Europa!

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #11 on: Sunday,March 11, 2018, 08:57:03 PM »
Small dip at 6200, maybe when the variable valve timing kicks in?

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #12 on: Monday,March 12, 2018, 05:49:21 AM »
Yes, that small dip is the VVTL or second cam as the Elise guys describes it, kicking in.

I found getting out of the Elise is more difficult than the Europa due to the very wide lower door sill but as with the Europa, you find your own technique of getting in and out.

Still in the research phase of replacing the rear main oil seal for the Renault 821. I've replaced the rear seal for the twink a couple of times in conjunction with a water pump replacement but never for the Renault. I have a spare junk 821-02 to play around with and practice before tackling the 821-30 in 65/2501*. 

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #13 on: Monday,March 12, 2018, 09:55:36 AM »
it may not be the rear main seal.  Rear valve cover and oil pan leaks will also cause an oil drip in the rear main area.  Remove the tin cover and look up in there with a flashlight.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Perils of letting a Europa sit too long
« Reply #14 on: Monday,March 12, 2018, 01:30:54 PM »
Thanks for the reminder. I had no previous major external engine leaks so I assumed the worse. I'll definitely check for other sources for new leaks before pulling the transaxle.