Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: bill on Wednesday,February 05, 2025, 08:58:51 AM
-
I have purchased a new screen fitting kit from SJ, this includes Chrome strip and corner pieces, plus sealant. However looking at the workshop manual it shows another seal in between the body and glass and an inner seal.
I don’t understand, am I missing something - photos attached.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards.
Bill
-
I have had 6 Europa screens fitted professionally.
First they clean the fibreglass surround and paint it with a black primer.
Then they clean the screen, as silicone used in making the screen makes adhesive not stick.
Then they fit the chrome surround and corner pieces and glue them to the screen.
Then they use a special mastic applicator which produces a V of black mastic which sticks to the primer on the fibreglass surround.
Then they carefully lower the screen into place, and hold it in the correct position with sticky tape.
Then leave the screen for 24 hours for the mastic to set.
Get it fitted professionally, or your screen will leak, damage your dashboard, and you will regret it.
-
I would follow previous reply's advice. Urethane bonded windshield are a mess for DIY and fraught for errors.
The diagram you're referencing is before urethane when butyl strips were used. Butyl is outdated and inferior for windscreens.
-
Hi Bill,
The previous posters are right, the manual refers to using thin butyl rubber strips as the adhesive and sealant, whereas most modern windscreens I've seen are using urethane adhesive from a mastic gun.
Do you need to get it done by a professional ? It's all down to you and how confident you are in doing the job. There is no doubt that a competent professional will make a quicker and better job of it than your average DIY guy but that's down to experience and not because they're rocket scientists or it's a magical secret.
Your car, your call - IMO it comes down to how much you want to do yourself or if you like the challenge of learning new tasks, it's not about the relatively low cost of someone doing it for you.
Like a respray, it's all down to preparation. A sheet covering the dash/interior, carefully masking off areas where you don't want mastic to go, working slowly and not rushing the job. If you can do that, then there's no reason why you can't do it yourself. The Europa has a relatively small screen compared to modern cars and isn't that difficult to do, the biggest problem is setting it down squarely for someone working alone.
Full disclosure, yes, I've fitted mine but when our modern camper needed a new screen I had it done professionally - twice in fact, that thing was a stone magnet.
The first Europa replacement was shortly after buying the car because those butyl strips were leaking (SwiftDB4 is right, they're not the best idea) and the second time was a new replacement because the laminations broke down. I'd stuck it in with adhesive, it was hard work removing and I ended up cracking the glass. But neither time did it leak afterwards and that's from a period where the car sat outside in the Yorkshire winters, 24/7. In fact when I resprayed the car in 2011 I decided not to remove the screen because it was definitely stuck in and I knew I'd crack it getting it out. It still doesn't leak although it does look scruffy around the edges now.... ;)
Brian
-
Many thanks guys
Will get a professional to do it
Regards Bill
-
I hope you have a better time getting a pro to do your windshield than I had the last time I had one installed!
When I first built my car, I called an installer who said he would do it but not guarantee it so I called another who came over to install it. While he was working, I mentioned the first guy not wanting to guarantee his work and he said he wouldn’t guarantee his work either! He did a great job and it didn’t leak.
Then I got a star in my windshield that was too close to the edge to repair so I got another windshield.
I called probably two dozen installers in my area including at least half a dozen who said they specialize in classic cars. When I told them it was a Europa they wouldn’t touch it. I finally I found a company who would do it. The installer spent the whole time complaining about what a pain in the ass it was and how he’d never do another like this (from my perspective, he didn’t do anything different than a what is done for a modern installation) and in the end, he did a crappy job. At least it doesn’t leak.
If there is a next time, I will probably do it myself but then I may not have a choice.
-
I did mine, but by bonding the trim to the screen first is just making it much more difficult to get a proper seal, and more difficult if not impossible to get the trim to fit the car and screen perfectly.
I bonded my screen in first,then when it was set I cut off the back of the trim before bonding that on,and I got a millimetre perfect fit.
-
I did mine, but by bonding the trim to the screen first is just making it much more difficult to get a proper seal, and more difficult if not impossible to get the trim to fit the car and screen perfectly.
I bonded my screen in first,then when it was set I cut off the back of the trim before bonding that on,and I got a millimetre perfect fit.
What adhesive did you use to bond the trim to the screen?
-
I did mine, but by bonding the trim to the screen first is just making it much more difficult to get a proper seal, and more difficult if not impossible to get the trim to fit the car and screen perfectly.
I bonded my screen in first,then when it was set I cut off the back of the trim before bonding that on,and I got a millimetre perfect fit.
What adhesive did you use to bond the trim to the screen?
Not going to answer for Sparkrite...but when I did mine...I primed the frit (edge of the windscreen) with primer, as well as the channel in the trim, and built it up as an assembly (glass, trim, edge pieces) using the urethane mastic that would be used to seat the windscreen.
I've seen some who cut off the area circled in red, and just filled the channel with mastic, then set the windshield in place then fit the trim into the excess mastic filling the opening.
I've also seen some folks who've leveled off the windshield opening to the body, and used stick-on trim and mitered ends.
Depends on your pain threshold. I did the bond trim to windshield and then install complete kit in opening. Seemed to turn out ok. See my entry in 693R's renovation journal http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/journal/index.php?m=11&y=07 and scroll down for October 27, 2007. Photos in http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/index.php/2007/10-27-07-Windshield
-
Although this is a long way away, I already have a windscreen waiting for my TC. Apologies Bill if I have misunderstood, but I can't see a kit including windscreen surrounds and bonding adhesive on their site - have I missed something or have they deleted it?
I think I've been told previously that the surrounds are not quite right, is that still the same (I'll take whatever can get tbh).
-
I am going to get my screen re-fit this year, going to wait for a couple of hot days if we get them. Have been looking at suppliers for parts and costs. I see that SJ Sportcars sell all the parts separately including a Bonding Kit at £17.90 inc vat.
-
I did mine, but by bonding the trim to the screen first is just making it much more difficult to get a proper seal, and more difficult if not impossible to get the trim to fit the car and screen perfectly.
I bonded my screen in first,then when it was set I cut off the back of the trim before bonding that on,and I got a millimetre perfect fit.
What adhesive did you use to bond the trim to the screen?
I believe I used sikaflex 221 black, but this is less strong than the one recommended by professionals, I chose it because I felt it was a happy compromise between the original butyl type and I had also read if the sealant was too strong the screen may crack under certain conditions. Best do your own research though.
-
I have a 73 TCS and will have to do some windscreen work in the spring once it warms up. After reading these entries, I’m not sure if I have a bonded windscreen or the older version. How do I tell the difference between the two?
Seperately, I can find replacement instructions in the S1/S2 manual but nothing in the Special addendum. Do those instructions apply to both windscreen installations?
-
TCS has bonded in windshield
-
Thanks Turboforce
-
I have a 73 TCS and will have to do some windscreen work in the spring once it warms up. After reading these entries, I’m not sure if I have a bonded windscreen or the older version. How do I tell the difference between the two?
Seperately, I can find replacement instructions in the S1/S2 manual but nothing in the Special addendum. Do those instructions apply to both windscreen installations?
All Europas manufactured after 1/1/1970 were bonded windscreens. Same technique for the post 1/1/70 S2 as for the TC/S (or the other way around).
The supplement is just that...it's the instructions for things that are different. If not listed in the supplement, follow the S1/2 manual. Section B.38 in the workshop manual: "Commencing at Chassis No. 7001010001R, all cars delivered where the U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations are in force have been fitted with direct glazed windscreen (windshield). "
-
Thanks Bryan, helpful information.
-
Hi guys
Further to my post is there a top and bottom interior trim available to cover the crash pad and top of screen
If so who supplies them
Again regards Bill
-
Pretty sure that I saw a bottom interior trim on SJ sportcars web site.
-
Hi guys
Further to my post is there a top and bottom interior trim available to cover the crash pad and top of screen
If so who supplies them
Again regards Bill
There is a plastic push-in trim to finish off the bottom in the parts manual that's also mentioned in the TC/S supplement, but nothing in the S1/2 manual or parts list.
What I did, and this is up to you to consider or not, was a number of things:
1. I painted the lower flange with black enamel when I removed the crash pad, as well as anything I thought would/could possibly be exposed.
2. I bought a roll of black door edge moulding, you know, the type you put on the door edge to keep from dinging the car next to you? I tried the truck size, but it was a bit too big, the normal car size was fine.
3. Since I was replacing the headliner at the same time, I used a length of the edge moulding to finish off the front where the headliner was wrapped around the windshield flange. This did 2 things: finished off the appearance and also fixed the edge in place. The thickness of the mastic would make up for the minimal thickness of the moulding in the flange channel.
4. I redid the A pillars with black leather. Had some scraps of Connolly from my turboesprit interior renovation...it worked out ok.
5. I was careful when I trimmed the backing of the new crashpad/eyebrow so it followed the contour of the lower windshield. Left the vinyl cover long, used another length of edge moulding to finish the front edge of the crashpad.
6. As part of the windshield install...I used the black windshield primer to prime a 1" border all around the windshield. When the windshield was installed, you could not see the lower opening flange, the front of the crashpad (and edge moulding trim) or any other exposed body work.
Take a look at:
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/index.php/2007/10-13-07-Headliner
and
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/index.php/2007/10-14-07-Dash
and
http://www.lotuseuropa.us/0693r/photos/index.php/2007/10-27-07-Windshield
to see what I'm talking about....if you're interested.
-
Are there any recommended fitters in the UK? I've got a new dash pad to fit some time and I'm not sure yet whether the windscreen will need removing first.
-
Which crash pad, foam or plastic?
-
Are there any recommended fitters in the UK? I've got a new dash pad to fit some time and I'm not sure yet whether the windscreen will need removing first.
Easier (and more fraught with the chance to crack the glass..been there, done that, both saving the windscreen and breaking it...) to do it with the glass out. Removing the defrost vent trim screws is almost impossible (not totally, but almost) with the screen in...it has been done, but not the easiest...and you have to trim the forward edge of almost every repop eyebrow currently available to match the body. Every body is just slightly different to require trim, fit, rinse and repeat until you are satisfied.
I've fond it is easier if you do remove...but know the risks going in.
-
Which crash pad, foam or plastic?
The plastic one with vinyl cover from Europa Engineering (Banks). See https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/interiors/trimmed-item/crash-pad-kit-s2-tc-crash-pad-and-black-vinyl-cover/
-
Which crash pad, foam or plastic?
The plastic one with vinyl cover from Europa Engineering (Banks). See https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/interiors/trimmed-item/crash-pad-kit-s2-tc-crash-pad-and-black-vinyl-cover/
Good luck trimming the foam, and fitting the vinyl cover to give a tight finish.
-
Great set of pictures Brian. When I do my windscreen/windshield soon they will prove to be very helpful.
-
Great set of pictures Brian. When I do my windscreen/windshield soon they will prove to be very helpful.
Glad I could be of some assistance.
-
Which crash pad, foam or plastic?
The plastic one with vinyl cover from Europa Engineering (Banks). See https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/interiors/trimmed-item/crash-pad-kit-s2-tc-crash-pad-and-black-vinyl-cover/
Good luck trimming the foam, and fitting the vinyl cover to give a tight finish.
Ah, so there should be foam under the vinyl? Sorry, not having the original parts on my car for guidance I do need to ask some dumb questions sometimes. I do have some 1/4" thick foam to use on the upholstery (if needed), would this be suitable to cover the crash pad?
-
Good luck trimming the foam, and fitting the vinyl cover to give a tight finish.
Ah, so there should be foam under the vinyl? Sorry, not having the original parts on my car for guidance I do need to ask some dumb questions sometimes. I do have some 1/4" thick foam to use on the upholstery (if needed), would this be suitable to cover the crash pad?
The crashpad is made from expanded foam and is made bigger and needs trimming to fit. Much patience is needed in both fitting the pad and then fitting the vinyl cover to make it look good.
If it is any consolation, the hollow plastic alternative is also a real pig to fit.
-
Good luck trimming the foam, and fitting the vinyl cover to give a tight finish.
Ah, so there should be foam under the vinyl? Sorry, not having the original parts on my car for guidance I do need to ask some dumb questions sometimes. I do have some 1/4" thick foam to use on the upholstery (if needed), would this be suitable to cover the crash pad?
The crashpad is made from expanded foam and is made bigger and needs trimming to fit. Much patience is needed in both fitting the pad and then fitting the vinyl cover to make it look good.
If it is any consolation, the hollow plastic alternative is also a real pig to fit.
Agreed. Dremel tool to cut, orbital sander to fine tune. Fit, measure, cut proud of the mark, sand (400 grit works ok) to the line, fit, remeasure, sand some more...iterative process. It WILL come out better than what the factory did, even though those folk probably did it multiple times a day.
Him: "I work at Lotus!"
You: "What do you do there?"
Him: "I trim the dashboard crashpad to fit."
Although, I think most folks there on the floor did multiple jobs, just like most of the parts in these beasts.