Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: jlmullen2 on Wednesday,December 18, 2024, 09:01:03 PM
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Just wondering if anyone has obtained a Certificate of Provenance for your Europa. I had seen a listing for the Certificate a while ago on the Lotus Silverstone web site and also recall a few folks mentioning they had contacted Lotus directly about the Certificate. I'm familiar with documents from manufacturers which confirm original equipment and that the VIN number confirms you really have an "original" vehicle. I have such a document for one of my other cars, a Saleen Mustang. At least in the Mustang world, this document helps when you are trying to price/sell your car.
I recently tried to find information on obtaining a Certificate of Provenance for my Europa. I e-mailed Lotus (Andy Grahme ??) but didn't receive a reply. I then went to the Lotus cars web site and the instructions for getting the certificate indicated I needed to contact my local Lotus dealer. I contacted a Lotus dealer in my area and they just got back to me with a price quote and how to begin the process of getting the certificate. I was quoted a price of $418.00 plus $35.00 shipping costs. They also noted it would take 6-8 weeks once I ordered the certificate.
This seems like a lot of money for a single page certificate and I'm not sure the value of the certificate is worth the cost. Appreciate anyone's comments on both the value of the Certificate as well as the cost I was quoted.
Thanks
Larry Mullen
1973 Europa TCS
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Hmm, I don't think I'd bother at that price, and as for $35 shipping for a sheet of A4 paper, well, obviously it's delivered on a velvet cushion.
I know some folks on here have got certificates in the past and from memory they came via Andy Graham. At one point he did follow this forum but I don't know if he's still around at Lotus or in the same position as Archivist. When I contacted him it was via "agraham AATT lotuscars.com" - obviously replace the AATT with @
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I got one from Andy for free, as I recall. I had to send him a photo of the car in my garage, and of the number plate. He could have retired, through. Your dealer is scamming you.
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I emailed Andy in November so I don't think he's retired. His address is AGraham at lotuscars dot com.
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It is no longer just a few pages. Lotus is trying to make it more like the other high end companies offering certificates. You get a booklet on your car and a few other “collectables.”
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…..is this what you mean?
https://shop.thelotusforums.com/products/lotus-certificate-of-provenance?srsltid=AfmBOorSF3ug8wst8YodZu1ZaQ6Lwc5Hia9RcmCrHzptSOf3QQjj0qyi
And this direct by the look of it
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/certificate-provenance
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I ordered one a couple of years ago. Emailed Andy Graham and went for the cheap version which was just the certificate, no goodies of fancy box. Had all the info on I needed and I think it was £40.
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When I (finally) got my car operational a few years back I contacted Andy and got the following back from him, dated 1/23/2020:
Dear Vincent,
Thank you for your enquiry. Being in the UK I don’t have any knowledge on how the US title system works, but many cars I have seen use the short VIN in the windscreen which is normally type number (74) and unit number 2619R. This could be why someone automatically wrote 74 at the start?
The car was made in August 1972 and sold in September 1972 to the US distributor Lotus East. It could have been 1973 by the time the car was passed onto a Lotus dealer and then retailed. Before 1980 Lotus did not use specific model years.
If needed we can offer a certificate service and can provide a second copy to the authorities if they need.
The classic certificate is £44.00 each car which includes postage and contains the certificate and a covering letter which does into more detail such as VIN/Engine number breakdown and these are all manually created from the information contained in the original files. The classic certificate covers;
VIN,
Engine number,
Transmission number,
Model,
Original colour,
Some options,
Date of manufacture,
Date of sale from Lotus,
Original distributor
Or for £55 we can offer the certificate above but include a search where your car comes in the US Europa Twin Cam build sequence and how many were in the same colour
Payment method options are;
Credit/debit card,
Bank transfer (need payment in British Pounds)
I had asked him if he had any insight about an anomaly between the title and the VIN. My car is quite far from original, but I suppose could readily be put back that way. Just seeing how they have been valued and often modified over the years, I don't see much value in a certificate, particularly an expensive one.
YMMV, of course!
-Vince
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…..is this what you mean?
https://shop.thelotusforums.com/products/lotus-certificate-of-provenance?srsltid=AfmBOorSF3ug8wst8YodZu1ZaQ6Lwc5Hia9RcmCrHzptSOf3QQjj0qyi
And this direct by the look of it
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/certificate-provenance
Wow, I'm definitely a cheapskate because that's too rich for me !
But if you were spending £80k (list) on a new Emira or you'd bought an Evora from new, well I can see one of those being ticked on the options list. It's a nicely put together package and relative to the cost of putting a new car on the road I could see a proud new owner wanting one.
Brian
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…..is this what you mean?
https://shop.thelotusforums.com/products/lotus-certificate-of-provenance?srsltid=AfmBOorSF3ug8wst8YodZu1ZaQ6Lwc5Hia9RcmCrHzptSOf3QQjj0qyi
And this direct by the look of it
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/certificate-provenance
Wow, I'm definitely a cheapskate because that's too rich for me !
But if you were spending £80k (list) on a new Emira or you'd bought an Evora from new, well I can see one of those being ticked on the options list. It's a nicely put together package and relative to the cost of putting a new car on the road I could see a proud new owner wanting one.
Brian
I spent $65K on a new Jag XE Prestige back in '07...and got a whole box shipped to me of goodies from JLR USA that included the cert of provenance, tire stem caps, 2 leather fob ocvers for the remotes, 4 yr sub to the Jag magazine, a dvd of the model's development and a nice ball cap (which I still have). Pretty sure it was factored into the cost of the car, and didn't have to send any more money to JLR; was part of the 'welcome to the family' stuff. $200+ to get a piece of paper, bookmark, ink pen, and key fob? Nah...for a 50 year old car?
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I went to the website for the high priced package and scrolled down to the bottom. There are other options listed there, one being the paper Certificate of Provenance , priced at 59 pounds, GBP.
That option would appeal to me as reasonably priced.
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Thanks Footer,
I need one.
Dakazman
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I have the certificate from Andy Graham. It is attached. It cost about maybe $50. I got it about 7 years ago.
Money well spent, I think. $450, no so much.
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Thanks to everyone who responded and provided links to obtain the Certificate of Provenance. After receiving the first reply back from the Lotus dealer, I decided to contact Andy Graham directly to confirm the information the dealer had sent to me. He got back to me quickly, noting that the Certificate of Provenance was now part of a presentation box which included various Lotus pins, a Lotus pen and other merchandise. He also noted that Lotus did not control any pricing changes made by a dealer when facilitating a transaction.
In a quick reply back to him thanking him for helping me understand how this all works I did mention that I was really only interested in the Certificate and not the other merchandise. He quickly responded by stating since I had a "classic Lotus" he could coordinate a Certificate to be sent to me via the Lotus Forums web site. All he needed was a photo or two of my VIN plate to confirm the cars number. He also noted I could pay for the certificate through the Lotus Forums web site.
I took the requested photos, sent them to Andy Graham then went to the Lotus Forums web site link he had provided. The cost was $68.00 for the certificate plus $26.00 shipping to the US and I should receive my certificate in 4-6 weeks.
In a brief look at the Lotus Forums web site, they clearly show that you can order a Certificate of Provenance but the price is quite a bit more than what I paid and it was not clear if this was just a certificate or the presentation box with merchandise. I got the impression ordering the certificate directly through the Lotus Forum web site was directed at more current models of Lotus rather than the "classics" we all own. Since Andy Graham was so helpful in obtaining my certificate, I would recommend that you start with him and avoid any dealer issues as he seems to be the one who will actually verify your VIN number as well as produce the Certificate of Provenance.
Larry Mullen