Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: dakazman on Sunday,November 24, 2024, 05:09:29 PM
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Rescued this S1 today, probably 20 years too late. No registry info.
I don’t know how the PO’s removed the frame yet. It seems they are bolted from underneath but the fiberglass was not cut out at the T section. Swept out years of debris and will pressure wash tomorrow. I’ll have to research how to open locked doors.
Frame is a goner. So what to do, seems to be salvage what I can and decide on what to place the body on.
Dakazman
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Now THAT is project! Good luck!
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Looks like it could use a little compound and wax, but at least the engine looks good.
😊
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As others have pointed out elsewhere, that is not an S1 chassis. Looks to be an S2 chassis from a 65.
If you can find a good S2 chassis, they can be modified to S1 spec. That's what I did for mine.
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I didn’t think so either. Frame contained an engine and gearbox that the owner wanted gone
Well after collecting everything he had the frame looks like this. I will try to find the sn so we can have a proper moment of silence.
No tag on this gearbox and the engine is an 821-30.
After pressure washing the body shows only minor damage. To my surprise it cleared up nicely
And I added a piece of her bling . While viewing some of earlier S1 I saw some had warts and the quarter glass windows.
Tomorrow’s plan is to drill out the door catch screws from behind and open the locked doors. I tried to reach inside but moving the linkage didn’t help.
How they got the frame out still eludes me. Probably in pieces.
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That chassis is also from an S2.
They removed the S1 chassis by cutting away the bulkhead between the passenger and engine compartments. That is also where the seats fit so I hope you have the those panels. I removed mine that way. Worked fine but there is a lot of glassing to get it all back in.
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I picked up the group mainly for the engine/ gearbox.
I wasn’t expecting to keep the frame and it now is cut up in small pieces. I kept what I think can be salvaged off the frame.the S2 mod to S1 is off the table as is a spyder frame, as the company isn’t making them anymore. I’ll verify that asap. If I’m to rebuild I’ll have to fabricate from scratch from the plans online. Or some Frankenstein mod 🙀. I’ll concentrate on just doing repairs to the spider cracks , veil after sanding down and a good primer and sealer.
I did not find anything that resembles a front bulkhead but have the console cover and the rear boot box, pictured earlier.
Dakazman
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You could build a chassis like Roddymac did on his Europa 8)
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What a find! You are doing Gods work!! S1s are the coolest welcome to the brotherhood :)
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Hi
You get a bravery award for sure. You clearly like a challenge that is actually a proper challenge. Wishing you the best of luck, and well done for attempting to bring her back to life!
All the best
Berni
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Could a the body be put on a Twin Cam frame? I would love to make a tribute Type 47.
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If you have a large wad of cash burning a hole in your pocket, you could contact Kelvedon and see about getting a 47 chassis for it. The downside would be having to buy all the rear suspension bits to make it work.
As for making one from scratch, with companies like Send Cut Send becoming more accessible, it might be an "easy" button for getting all the various pieces of sheet metal cut and bent. Unfortunately, I dont think it would be all that cheap unless you were to get a few chassis' worth of pieces cut.
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Dakazman,
thank you for your efforts to resurrect that S1. You have quite a challenge to take on but look on the bright side, you can do whatever you want with it. Nobody will fault you for straying from perfection or originality. To get it back to original S1 spec, as you know, would be a #$%@ of a job and allot of cash and time spent searching for parts around the world. It will be worth the hard work. Good luck to you and thanks again.
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Very interesting find and a big project for sure. Can you confirm that the VIN is 460148 or is it 460140? The picture is not 100% clear to me.
Concerning a new chassis: Richard Winter of Europa Engineering is still able to produce a chassis pretty close to S1 spec. Some details like the foot well cover around the front axle pickup points still needs to be added. My brother just bought a new chassis from him and finished it. If you are interested please contact me and I'll pass you more details.
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Thank you for all for your support with this project.
I was able to get to it today for my planned job of opening doors . As I was cutting off the door plates from behind the door jamb looking for the build plate as with the S2 . Well no such plate , then I remembered a thread on SN’ being formed into to body, we’ll long behold there it was , just inboard of the rear boot hinge. See pic . NOT Agreeing with the front boot plate 0148. Paint color or gearbox not stamped on the front boot plate .
Then I exceeded my goal of opening doors to removing them completely and laughed when I opened them to see the,”do not lean” stencil on the jamb. Then surprised they moved and stayed in plane I opened and closed them until they fell off in my hand. Found no water drains in doors either.
The body had been painted prior, bearing witness to a coat of gelcoat just atop the bare fiberglass.
A 47 project sound great powered by my 843 cross flow.
Dakazman
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🤣
Then this reveal . Don’t gasp to loud!
Dakazman
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yikes!
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It moonlighted as a boat anchor :confused:
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There's no putting lipstick on that pig. When you get it together and shiny, as we all know you will, you can really feel like you've accomplished something... Because you have!
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(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-xZ9fMZd/0/KjHhvMJTHGXgJZXC49TTmNg683MHRZsBZ5JgftQMv/X5/IMG_1375-X5.jpg)
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The body number and VIN didn't match.
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According to those two locations. Are the sn plates on the s1 supposed to be on the forward bulkhead or front of storage wall?
I also found a little rectangle imprint on the botttoms of the doors that I’ll have to check out
A see if I can get some ID numbers .
Funny part is that there are no drain holes in the bottom of the S1 doors. I guess they thought it wouldn’t get any water.
Dakazman
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The SN plate is located at the front of the bulhead on the driver side as it is on your car. The body number and the VIN do not match in many cases. Lotus just didn't care.
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Certainly S1s with fixed windows had no way for water to get in. Mine stay completely dry, no matter what. Also, it's not going to rust.
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Brain fart, JB!
I forgot they don’t move. I saw some pictures of window mods that hinged and some of sliders.
I have plenty of time to get acquainted with the difference now.
Engine tear down was scary. Still fighting splitting the gearbox from engine and the other gearbox, pressure plate and disc from it . Tomorrow the acetylene torch is coming out .
Dakazman
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I just picked up two 821 blocks for free that I think would be better suited as garden planters, but now that I'm seeing yours...
Sadly too light for a boat anchor ;D
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Thanks guys,
The S/N’s had me worried.
Another observation after opening doors was the A pillars are extremely thinner than the S2’s.
I’ll heed the warnings for sure on them. Hopefully the PO’s son will find the windscreen and side windows, headlight buckets and some more information other than a name of the seller, to the father of Jim Snowden. Just word of mouth info… it’s funny or a coincidence a James Snowden of California owns or did own an latter S1a , a son perhaps???
Going through a stack of lotus literature reveals nothing so far.
Dakazman
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The a-pillar is covered by vinyl trim so reinforce it while you can. Simply fibreglassing in a strip or rod of metal will do the trick.
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Ditto on reinforcing S1 pillar. Wish I had done that before my last paint job years ago.
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I found a few more items of interest , bell housing has a slant to it . I was able to cut out the springs on the pressure plate and pull the rest off with a gear puller.
Owners manual only in French .
Dakazman
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Only in French… Well, come on, there has to be some kind of challenge to this project. :))
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The bell housing on 0576 also has a slant, with no cover, so the flywheel is exposed. I was wondering about that, I'm missing that cover if anyone has one. Aidan
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There is no cover for Series 1 bell housings. There is nothing to attach a cover to. The bolt holes were ground off to create the slant. It seems the purpose of the machined-off bell housing face (slant) is to allow it to fit within its respective opening on the underside of the engine compartment. The protection offered by the flywheel cover is provided by the body. I don't know the condition of the underside of your engine compartment, but quite a few images that I've seen of other S1s, have a large hole that runs front-to-back where a good bit of the original fiberglass had been broken off. I'll try to post a photo of the way Lotus intended it.
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If you have a large wad of cash burning a hole in your pocket, you could contact Kelvedon and see about getting a 47 chassis for it. The downside would be having to buy all the rear suspension bits to make it work.
As for making one from scratch, with companies like Send Cut Send becoming more accessible, it might be an "easy" button for getting all the various pieces of sheet metal cut and bent. Unfortunately, I dont think it would be all that cheap unless you were to get a few chassis' worth of pieces cut.
I actually have access to factory patterns for 47 rear bearing carriers. It is kind of low on my list at the moment but it is on there...
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Thanks guys,
The S/N’s had me worried.
Another observation after opening doors was the A pillars are extremely thinner than the S2’s.
I’ll heed the warnings for sure on them. Hopefully the PO’s son will find the windscreen and side windows, headlight buckets and some more information other than a name of the seller, to the father of Jim Snowden. Just word of mouth info… it’s funny or a coincidence a James Snowden of California owns or did own an latter S1a , a son perhaps???
Going through a stack of lotus literature reveals nothing so far.
Dakazman
Once I finish my S1 door molds the side window molds are next. I still have a hoard of windscreens if you need one down the road.
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Thank you for all for your support with this project.
I was able to get to it today for my planned job of opening doors . As I was cutting off the door plates from behind the door jamb looking for the build plate as with the S2 . Well no such plate , then I remembered a thread on SN’ being formed into to body, we’ll long behold there it was , just inboard of the rear boot hinge. See pic . NOT Agreeing with the front boot plate 0148. Paint color or gearbox not stamped on the front boot plate .
Then I exceeded my goal of opening doors to removing them completely and laughed when I opened them to see the,”do not lean” stencil on the jamb. Then surprised they moved and stayed in plane I opened and closed them until they fell off in my hand. Found no water drains in doors either.
The body had been painted prior, bearing witness to a coat of gelcoat just atop the bare fiberglass.
A 47 project sound great powered by my 843 cross flow.
Dakazman
This is the first time I have actually seen the underside of the seat panel!!! Wow what a project! I will help however I can. They must be saved!!
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Everything I see is a first also.
These were built is the late 60's . I'm going to make this fun, but I have many challenges ahead with obtaining title.
Dakazman
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Thanks Chuck and Roddy
I went to the Kelvedon and saw the fluctuating sale price less shipping , yikes .
I also saw the price of the basic S1 frame, wow.
Right now I just want to get it in a primer condition after repairing damaged areas.
Getting it in a dried in condition is the plan so I may take you up on the windscreen.
Dave
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Started a build board for the S1 harness today. I’ll compare it to the schematic but it can’t get much simpler, Comparing it to the XKE . Then I found this PO addition 🤣
Dakazman
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Nice addition ::)
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HELP,
S1 Frame dimensions needed.
Still debating if I should rebuild this car or cut it up for parts. I’m also working on getting title before doing any serious work.
Dakazman
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You might try PMing Serge. He may not have mated his frame and body.
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The basic S1 frame dimensions are the same as an S2.
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/Lotus%20europa%20chassis%20drawing.pdf
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That’s funny BDA, I did just that and he replied exactly what JB just sent . Thanks JB it’s the little changes you mentioned that I’m worried about. The construction of the body is truely amazing.
I know I have the rear loop blueprints somewhere but finding them on TB’s of hard drives storage units, I thought I’d ask .
I’m just getting prepared and working on getting a clean title before jumping in on it . I did however order some brushed aluminum for the center console an glove box
Dakazman
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I converted an S2 chassis to mostly S1 spec. I didn’t change the end flanges and just used S2 coolant pipes. Not too much to do really:
- weld on nuts for the three different throttle positions,
- tabs for the seat belt braces,
- bend up the S2 lower flange and weld it to chassis for the front floor.
- fabricate toe boxes to cover the lower a-arm mount (leave enough space for the arm to clear!),
- remove the S2 side mounting flanges
- etc.
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David,
in an earlier post on this thread you mentioned the eighteen day discrepancy between your body tag and your vehicle/chassis tag. This aroused my curiosity so I unearthed my body tag. I have a six day (body post chassis & VIN) time spread. My S1 is 46/0202 but my body is 0208. Obviously they stacked up the bodies before assembly and final tags. My car was invoiced to Germany on 10 October 1967.
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Thanks S1,
That should clear up the body tag as the serial number controversy or stir up more.
I finally made a second attempt to split the motor from the gearbox. I separated it enough to remove the pressure plate bolts and I was able to break the clutch plate off .
Off with the oil pan to seek more answers …This time was not in vain but… it still needs more soaking in a penetrant. 🥴
At least it’s in smaller pieces so I can move them around.
At least the gearbox turns and gets all 5 gates.
Dakazman
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You are a brave man! Most guys would use that as a boat anchor. I'm anxious to see how you breath life back into it. Good luck my friend.
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S1, Looks like the boat anchor scenario was correct.see gapping hole in block after cleaning. The only things I may salvage might be the rods, cam, crank and some miscellaneous pieces. Gearbox good , save for a little chip out of the bellhousing. Head is still fighting some lifters but its going to the my press soon.
Now for the other engine.
I just like to know the status of usable parts and throw out the rest. No sense storing and moving junk.
Dakazman
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Yikes!
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A clean scrap block can be surprisingly useful.
I have one I am using to take accurate measurements from to make a crank scraper.
I may also use it as a dummy to let my chassis roll before putting in the good engine.
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Well this is the last will see of 1171. 😥
Reduced to a small pile of parts, I need to press out the wrist pins, pistons shot saved the oil filter threaded adapter and all oil gallery plugs. Maybe I’ll have some fun and drive my lotus to the scrap yard with all my aluminum and get weight in🤣 killing two birds in one shot.
Besides putting away Christmas it’s been a busy day.
Dakazman
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I found some time to remove the inner door lock items and order a sheet of laminate to make the panels for the interior dash.
Are any items available for purchase for the doors. I just want to get the body completed and will purchase some SS door hinges but I can’t find the lock assembly or door catch items.
Then what holes in this center panel are not original?
I did did this pic of what may be original. Last pic
Dakazman
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David, here is one of my previous posts regarding the IP panels; S1 I.P Panels
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Door hardware might be easier to find in France rather than North America. I quick search on Ebay.fr for "Renault R16 Porte" brought up a couple latches, but they appear to lack the locking mechanism: https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_ssn=whytedeamon_2&store_name=vintageagestore&_oac=1&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211 (https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_ssn=whytedeamon_2&store_name=vintageagestore&_oac=1&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211)
If it's not at the top of the list, search for "Serrure de porte arrière gauche neuve d'époque pour Renault 16 R16 7701450152"
My car has one with a lock and the other without, but I don't have a key for the one with a lock. I'm not too concerned as I rarely leave it unattended.
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S1,
I have the material so I just jumped in to see how this laminated material forms. I’m just going to cut the basic shape and maybe the gauge holes. Posted the front, side and back for clarity.
Roddy,
Thanks for the info. I thought the eBay prices were high until I went to Renault16shop where it looks like they compare with what I have . 212.00 I believe euro’s is out of the question plus shipping. I’ll continue to search as you instructed.
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The holes you have on the dash are original. They match my S1b except I have a wood dash.
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S1,
I have the material so I just jumped in to see how this laminated material forms. I’m just going to cut the basic shape and maybe the gauge holes. Posted the front, side and back for clarity.
Roddy,
Thanks for the info. I thought the eBay prices were high until I went to Renault16shop where it looks like they compare with what I have . 212.00 I believe euro’s is out of the question plus shipping. I’ll continue to search as you instructed.
If you need, I have DXF files to do the laser cutting. You just need to add the ashtray.
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Hachille, thanks
I sent you a PM .
Dakazman
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Still waiting on the DMV to verify my antique car application. I’m starting to get worried.
I’ll give it another week.
I finished stripping the entire body down of everything that is no fiberglass or held on by fasteners. I did repairs on the bonnet and sanding it down. I’ll remove the engine cover this week and work on the minor defects in the glass.
Dakazman
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Still waiting on the DMV to verify my antique car application. I’m starting to get worried.
I’ll give it another week.
I finished stripping the entire body down of everything that has no fiberglass and held on by fasteners. Also repairs on the bonnet and sanding it down. I’ll remove the engine cover this week and work on the minor defects in the glass.
Dakazman
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While waiting for the title…, still . I went through a few items that were laying around .
Any idea what the po did to the cabin fan?
Wiper motor showed some sign of life but the brackets need to be fabricated.
Dakazman
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That is not the correct cabin air fan. The correct fan blows air from the front compartment into the front luggage area which is "pressurized" and moves air into the heater box and side vents.
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David, here is what I have and believe to be original to the car.
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Can confirm, same dinky little axial fan in my car. Absolute joke, relies more on the front mechanical/spare tire area being pressurized by incoming ram air. Also needs a good seal to the hood for the plenum, but I've never seen anything fitted factory.
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Low durometer flimsy foam strip...
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I still have my original foam strip. I would like to change it for something more aesthetic/modern/serious-looking but I don't know what would seal the space from the flat trunk wall to the curved bonnet...
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Exactly, I guess that is why they used such a cheap soft foam...and of course it has virtually no weight and low cost. Both aspects revered by Mr. Chapman.
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And looks cheap!
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Thanks for the all the input, I just can’t find much time to go into the books. I’m also going through a pile of suspension items that need de rusting and tear down. I just hate moving stuff dozens of times just to throw out months later. I’ve also been collecting dozens of pictures of frames from Banks and others .
I did however fixed my garage computer, it’s a real timesaver. Then my daughter brings over her AIO with a broken touchscreen…, another's thing waiting on parts.
Dakazman
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I still have my original foam strip. I would like to change it for something more aesthetic/modern/serious-looking but I don't know what would seal the space from the flat trunk wall to the curved bonnet...
Foam door seal (from the big box store) that you'd use to seal a double-hung window that has a window AC unit in it. I think you can see what I'm using at the top of the photo...sorry the photo isn't as clear for that part, but I got a package to use on mine at Lowe's.
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Suppose-ably my title got pushed to the front of the line, whatever that means.
Still I went against my better judgment and purchased some flush locks for the bonnet and lid after watching surges Video. Then picked up some primer for the S1 but before painting I’ll be doing some minor body repairs and coating it with synthetic veil on sides and composite on the top surfaces.
Dman
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Dman, have you come to any conclusions with your various veil experiments?
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Dman, have you come to any conclusions with your various veil experiments?
Only on a small repair to the engine lid with composite, which answered two questions, one it produced a better finish then just high build primer section and that if you use the veil, it must cover the entire panel, no patching.
Corection,I did paint the entire extra lid that had the composite added to the bare glass from Bert Knip'S S1 parts collection before he moved. The finish is very nice but I didn't have time to take out all the waves in it or final fit before my car show Fiasco.
The other test pieces are in prime and ready to finish coat with a color, probably just black again since I'll be painting the original rear lid again. Its painting season down here.
Dman
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Just confirmation on the ventilation fan:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-fZDdsH3/1/MqWVwkHRHhPsnDK8TFVsZKqB534K6wVkpF6KdN3t3/O/IMG_1529.jpg)
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Thanks JB,
I also noticed the difference in the PVC hose to top of air cleaner.
Fuel tank on right side only?
Rear luggage has a plate in it …battery compartment? I thought this one was modified and I think it is deeper in that area.
I’ll also check the antenna location in the glass tomorrow.
Then the front and back bonnet and lid has the Ollie locks. I watched Serge’s YouTube video on making them and I even purchased a set of 8 flush lock pins.
D’man
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S1s only came with one tank. They mount differently than other Europa tanks as they simply bolt to the under-tray. Banks sold a mirrored tank for the left side and I bought a pair of aluminium ones and am very happy with the range.
The S1 luggage compartment has a molded in battery compartment. They moved the battery in the later cars for better weight distribution. I moved my battery up front.
Only the S1 had the oddies, and maybe only the early ones at that. Look cool though.
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Thought I would chime in on the trunk topic and share my experience. Mine was trashed so I bought a new one from SJ Sportscars. They reproduce them with a mold taken from a very rough original box so all of the flaws that the pattern and mold had are in the final part. At any rate, with allot of work I reinforced the top lip and cleaned it all up with gel coat and epoxy laminating resin/cloth. Polished the black surfaces and left the back side raw. Replaced the rusty underside muffler insulation and plate with lava matt and SS.
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My S1 ,
Thanks for the photos that will help with the rebuilding process. It looks very much like mine but in much better condition and with no bottom on the battery section. I’ll get some pics on mine tomorrow.
JB,
These Ollie locks look to be molded in when built, I could not see any extra mat on the backside.
See pics. Yes, they do look cool.
I believe serge has posted the dimensions of the fuel tanks he built but I’ll have to watch that video again. I have the dimensions of an S2’s but I’ll have to see if the inside fiberglass wall is the same on both vehicles.
Restoring these is a learning process for sure.
D’man
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Dave, that is fascinating! Are those the priceless Oddie steel cups riveted on from behind or are they plastic or fiberglass? My receptors were cast into the decklid and hood, then the steel cups were riveted on from outside. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning them up but I'm pretty sure that they were originally laid up as part of the mold. Could someone please confirm how these pin receptacles were originally fabricated..tacked on or laid up?
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Now, I see what I'm looking at. Sorry for the confusion. Do you have a picture of the underside of the pin receptacles? Your's seem to be more accurate than mine. All four of mine had hellacious air pockets from the quick lay-up job.
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He didn't have tanks. I provided him with the dimensions:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-4HbVhj6/0/LkPsXzcxTbBjSd2wFRpPLvXpMJhsgR3gXgpV556TH/O/655a17ec-fb93-4f54-a089-890a1495a2d5.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-kgSKxbw/0/Kr4fCFgLdFq4qVwFXVpkP2vkbp5df6fgwrNrMNBXQ/O/4705f736-ad2c-4607-a118-fb947f603ec1.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-pwVVcZX/0/Nd8Wt6bXXTKGt7GffLgB2T7WCQ7n7bbqng84qbNNm/O/d15661f5-d56a-4940-8320-1adbb29b1466.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-FHS2pQ3/0/NVJRX2PcpVM879PPKnhKGTDCxTtCTXfSJfCdSXqBb/O/c00d8252-41bf-45fc-8974-a6cf1ad03638.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-w5tdQpq/0/Lvxzzw8LjCXGf7WQm2W4pZm2d8Bq6ZBQJPddqxzXs/O/a5eaebd5-4cf3-4b68-a866-ba5ffd453ec1.jpg)
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That will get me in the ballpark, I appreciate it. Thanks JB . They are definitely a different shape from the S2 & tc’s. I ‘ll get reacquainted to that area again soon but it looks like we’re going to get much needed rain today and I don’t want to take the cover off.
Still waiting on the status of a title. 🤷🏼♂️😠
S1, here are some pics of the lower surfaces. Starting at front top, front bottom, back top then back bottom.
I have the bonnet in the trailer and didn’t get those .
Dakazman