Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Richard48Y on Sunday,May 12, 2024, 10:39:00 PM
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In another week I will know if I am going to have the funding to buy a smallish very low hours VMC.
That is a computer driven vertical mill for anyone not familiar.
I have owned these before, I used to make a lot of firearms parts and accessories.
It is being a real stretch to make the purchase and I know from experience that tooling up will be expensive too.
Need to find some products to make that folk will actually want to buy ASAP to begin the recoup.
Not sure what those might be, looking for suggestions.
For myself I am unhappy with the available air boxes and despise plastic.
Thinking aluminum base and fiberglass cover.
The machine can carve aluminum very well, steel runs too, just slower.
Not large enough to do a dashboard and wood is not good for the machine.
Once I get back in the groove roller rockers become a possibility, if I can find raw material to work with.
A lot of things can be done as billet, so long as the material does not cost too much.
Material cost and availability are now major issues for small time guys who did not pre-order in bulk some time ago.
No fourth axis on this machine and I am not competent to program 4D anyway.
4D and even 5D could be added but the tools for that cost much more than this machine.
There are virtually no decent jobs locally, and it seems what few there are practice age discrimination.
So the goal is to build up a side income and provide items no one else are doing.
Does not have to be Lotus bits, just not interested in going toe to toe with the Ford/Chevy/China companies.
Not intending to go back to eighty hour weeks, only need to about double my income. :FUNNY::headbanger:
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Good luck, Richard!
The only thing that comes to mind for a product is aluminum alternator drive pulleys for TCs. A guy used to make nice ones but he’s not making them anymore. Of course, you want to make those on a lathe rather than a mill…
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It would be great to have a real experienced machinist on the forum. One item high on my to do list is to fabricate another production run of high balance intake manifolds if I get the time. I'm sure there will be other suggestions from owners. Also don't forget to offer your products on the "Products, Parts and Products on the sub-forum. Good luck on this endeavor.
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Let's not forget about our own Chuck Nukem. He seems to be gearing up for some interesting things too!
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In another week I will know if I am going to have the funding to buy a smallish very low hours VMC.
That is a computer driven vertical mill for anyone not familiar.
I have owned these before, I used to make a lot of firearms parts and accessories.
It is being a real stretch to make the purchase and I know from experience that tooling up will be expensive too.
Need to find some products to make that folk will actually want to buy ASAP to begin the recoup.
Not sure what those might be, looking for suggestions.
For myself I am unhappy with the available air boxes and despise plastic.
Thinking aluminum base and fiberglass cover.
The machine can carve aluminum very well, steel runs too, just slower.
Not large enough to do a dashboard and wood is not good for the machine.
Once I get back in the groove roller rockers become a possibility, if I can find raw material to work with.
A lot of things can be done as billet, so long as the material does not cost too much.
Material cost and availability are now major issues for small time guys who did not pre-order in bulk some time ago.
No fourth axis on this machine and I am not competent to program 4D anyway.
4D and even 5D could be added but the tools for that cost much more than this machine.
There are virtually no decent jobs locally, and it seems what few there are practice age discrimination.
So the goal is to build up a side income and provide items no one else are doing.
Does not have to be Lotus bits, just not interested in going toe to toe with the Ford/Chevy/China companies.
Not intending to go back to eighty hour weeks, only need to about double my income. :FUNNY::headbanger:
Richard,
Nowadays I cant blame you for double.
I have a full console and binnacle and a alternater bracket swap for a 100 amp ( SBC) chevy. One wire. That may require a shunt.
I met two Northrup Gruman machinist down here lately, one with a complete shop. I've been staying out of TC items but soon I'll be looking for something else to do in my retired life.
LOL , I think I completed my wife's To-Do list, but this drought is killing me. Hoping for some rain in 2 hours.
Pics later
D'Man
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Good luck, Richard!
The only thing that comes to mind for a product is aluminum alternator drive pulleys for TCs. A guy used to make nice ones but he’s not making them anymore. Of course, you want to make those on a lathe rather than a mill…
Hmm, I do have a 13" lathe, just not CNC.
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New billet MC's that fit!
No, I suppose not, in todays litigious world. (Dammit!)
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Yeah, I think it would be safer to make alternator drive pulleys!
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Looking at older threads it seems there may still be interest in upgraded uprights.
They could be made as billet but the material cost would be very high.
Alternately permanent molds could be made to produce patterns for casting.
But again, too many ambulance chasers in the US?
What about these?
FI Body to intake adapters.
Engine to transmission adapters.
Good air filter assemblies.
Weber reinforcement plates.
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Those are good ideas Richard!
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Richard, how you at overall metal working, welding, sheet metal fabrication, brazing? I'm thinking possibly modular seat frames or TC engine cradles.
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I second Grumblebuns' high balance intake manifolds.
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I've collected all sort of welders, I would get prettier welds if I did it more often.
I have a nice tube bender and dies in several sizes.
I have access to sheet metal brakes but not a shear.
If the tired seats show up on Sunday my plan was to repair them, good practice parts.
This is all tooling I have now!
Do we have a drawing, pic, or sample to look at?
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Take a look at Gavin T's post #15
https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=6525.15
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Looks simple enough at first glance.
I will have to check on material.
Had another idea for the VMC.
Just bought two sets of the plastic surrounds for the front marker lights.
They will work but the edges are narrower than the original and it is still flimsy plastic.
An aluminum set would last almost forever. :)
Also thinking of aluminum defrost grills, no more warping in the sun.
Oh, and a buddy is trying to convince me to get a large 3D Printer/Laser/Mill combo unit.
From what I see the printer works well, the laser only cuts paper - thin wood, and the mill function is a toy.
But he says he has items he will pay me to supply him, so maybe. :confused:
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Also thinking of aluminum defrost grills, no more warping in the sun.
The defrost grill sounds like a nice option. If you do that, try to design something that can be installed and removed with the windscreen in place. I think they should be black anodized, so you'll want to do a batch of them for anodizing.
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Today I was gifted a small Ender 3-D printer.
Going to play with it before getting serious about buying a much larger $1,200 three in one print/laser/mill version.
One of my first items will be defrost vents for the Lotus.
The CAD model for this printer should also be a good start for milling from billet.
What I should really do is make stamping dies for aluminum sheet.
I have a 30 Ton press that might work for that.
EDIT: Ender 3-D basic assembly is complete.
Do not even try to use the cartoon assembly instructions, use one of the youtube videos.
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With a 3-D printer and some stamping dies...
Sounds like a business case for ash tray customers. 8)
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But Banks/Lotus Supplies are already supplying ashtrays.
I like the idea of aluminum vents to make them less of a throw away item.
Trying to find a printable wax to use with my sand casting outfit too.
With tools at hand and cars to restore I should never run out of "Things to do".
At least not when the power is on, just had another outage most of the day due to a broken power line.
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IIRC there are some starter motor adaptors that would be handy, I have one designed to put an Isuzu Trooper gear reduction motor in many places the standard Bendix ones goes, haven't poked around enough to know how simple/complex that would be for the Europa engines. Almost certainly just a $50 part though.
Kinda sorta ripping off this outfit: https://www.classiccarperformance.com/products/lotus-europa-renault-powered (https://www.classiccarperformance.com/products/lotus-europa-renault-powered)
They used to be worse priced ($300 a pop) but I pull those trooper starters for $10 so $200 is still a hard sell.
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I keep coming back to wondering if there is a market for a well designed and durable dual Weber air cleaner assembly using a readily available paper filter.
The individual K&N units have gotten expensive and are just not the same quality they were.
They also do not have any really good provision for engine venting.
I am thinking of a single unit to cover both Webers, and maybe some provision for a cold air duct as well.
Renault and Ford engines would require different base plates, and Renault might not all be the same due to different brands of intake manifolds.
I do hope to be able to use the same top cover and filter for all variations.
In any case I intend to do a prototype for my own use.
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I keep coming back to wondering if there is a market for a well designed and durable dual Weber air cleaner assembly using a readily available paper filter.
Chris Neils (Lotus independant specialist) offered one in the 80s/90s which came as a folded metal back plate with a flat filter clamped in place. This did away with the OEM front cover and trunking to the separate air filter canister. I had one (it's probably still on the shelf somewhere) because when I bought the Elan it was missing the cover/trunking and running on open weber trumpets with no filtration.
It's a poor shot, but you can get the idea from this old photo taken during a respray...
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Europa engine compartments get warm, very warm. If you are going to make something up, have it draw in cooler air from near the front of the rear wheel well.
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It's a poor shot, but you can get the idea from this old photo taken during a respray...
That looks like the filter used on the Lotus Esprit (not sure which model/s) as well as the Excel etc.?
There's also a K&N version if that takes the fancy.
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That looks like the filter used on the Lotus Esprit (not sure which model/s) as well as the Excel etc.?
There's also a K&N version if that takes the fancy.
Yep, you're right.... it's a paper filter in a metal framework like this one.
https://www.pnmparts.co.uk/lotus-air-filter-0487 (https://www.pnmparts.co.uk/lotus-air-filter-0487)
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Same/similar filter used in V12 Jags, Triumph TR7s, etc.
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Had to give up on the VMC, machine price was great, but moving cost are :-X too high to bear.
Sacrificed a few cars to try to do this, just another thousand needed. :headbanger:
One of the cars I sacrificed was my Morris Minor Pickup.
Yes it was a tinker toy, but VERY practical as a DD, unlike say, a Europa?
If I do not get scooped I have found a better one to replace it for almost the same price as I sold mine.
As to manufacture, in theory my manual mill can do a lot of what the VMC would have, just a lot slower.
So I intend to spruce up the manual mill, relearn my CAD skills, make a stamping fixture, get comfortable with the 3D, and even find time to finish the Lotus.
It is claimed that constantly learning new things staves off mental decline, I should be good for a long time. ;)
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Had to give up on the VMC, machine price was great, but moving cost are :-X too high to bear.
Sacrificed a few cars to try to do this, just another thousand needed. :headbanger:
Bummer!!! I hope you find another one!
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For myself I am unhappy with the available air boxes and despise plastic.
Thinking aluminum base and fiberglass cover.
The machine can carve aluminum very well, steel runs too, just slower.
Would be happy to see the outcome of this - I need one. TCS original airboxes do occasionally come on the market but they demand serious money, proportionally they must be up there with ash trays. :FUNNY:
In my ignorance though I cannot see how you would (economically) machine an aluminum base.
I am preparing to make one from scratch - but I know its going to be a saga. :(
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RdEnt supplies metal bases for air boxes, both Strombergs and Webers.
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I have not seen any for Webers on the Cross-Flow Renault.
In theory I can make almost anything the VMC would have done on my manual machine, just much more slowly.
The VMC is still a possibility if I can raise funds again.
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Hard to believe, but the VMC purchase may be ON again!
Sold a Triumph GT6 project, way too cheap but I promised myself I was cutting back.
That funds buying the VMC but I still need to scratch up more funds to get it shipped.
Seller finally relented and will allow me to send my own trucker, that will be much less expensive.
If he had done that a week ago I would already have bought the VMC instead of the Morris Minor.
If this goes sideways again, I will be buying Lotus and MM parts.
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Good luck!
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Good things to those who wait?
CNC's are definitely mine in about two weeks.
I spent the whole day making space for them, not waiting until the last minute.
I will still have to buy tooling for them, find a phase inverter, get my power upgraded, and relearn my CAD/CAM.
Hopefully all by next May?
So let me know what we seriously need that is NOT already available.
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NEW TOYS!!! Happy days for you, Richard (though getting the rest of what you need will take some time)!
I'll be thinking about what you might be able to use that for.
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I've collected all sort of welders, I would get prettier welds if I did it more often.
I have a nice tube bender and dies in several sizes.
I have access to sheet metal brakes but not a shear.
If the tired seats show up on Sunday my plan was to repair them, good practice parts.
This is all tooling I have now!
Do we have a drawing, pic, or sample to look at?
I posted the dimensions of the S2 seats. Frames, Foam and Material. I'll try to find link later.
Dakazman
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Update for those who may be wishing for cross-flow roller rockers.
A fellow in TX is ahead of me, he already has the CAD done.
Not sure if he intends to market them, or what his price would be.
If he is only doing them for his own use I will make a run at doing them too.
But don't hold your breath, I will have a fair amount of skills to regain first.
Now, how about wedge head versions?
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Now, how about wedge head versions?
It wouldn't surprise me to see that's where the larger market is.
I imagine most of those would be in the US as well.
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I do not know of anyone else looking at doing wedge head rockers.
But I also have no samples of even a stock rocker to work from.
Surely there are some worn examples available?
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I now have delivery date for the CNC machines, Oct 1.
The VMC and a small lathe.
Lathe will be great for bushings, small threaded shafts, pulleys, etc up to 6" dia.
Also got a sample crank scraper to copy for production this morning.
Still need to get my power upgraded, phase inverter, tooling, and a few more items but I am getting closer.
I have a few items in mind but none of the mass quantity parts needed to become wealthy! :headbanger:
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Richard ,
Well if the roller rockers will work with the pushrod we bought I’m in .
Dakazman
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CNC machines have arrived and are in place.
Still have to level them, set up the coolant tanks, and CLEAN them.
I know they will get dirty again, but I swear they will never be so dirty as they are now.
Next up is getting the phase inverter I found in So. Cal.
Along with my relearning CAD-CAM skills.
But I will get there, I have no other choice.
Looks like first VMC project will be Renault crank scrapers in aluminum.
Not too complex, 2D, good practice for me.
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We need photo's....... :trophy:
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Richard,
We can use a magical master fabricator, but you were supposed to stay focused on driving the Europa by summer.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
However, I wish you the best
Dakazman
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Having more time for the Europa does little good without accompanying funds.
If I were sensible I would just have a Camry. :blowup:
Of course if I were sensible then I would also have died of boredom decades ago.
So the goal is more funding via the CNC's and no commute or set schedule.
We all have dreams. :holdurbreath:
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CNC machines have gone from "You have to be kidding, NO ONE lets a CNC get this dirty!" to just filthy, now only dirty.
Almost clean enough for pics.
The list of items to make keeps growing.
My CAD skills are dismaying after only a four year hiatus.
Once I have the phase inverter here and hooked up I will be able to practice operating the machines. Much simpler than CAD-CAM.
None of the items I am intent on making are terribly complex.
If I must I will just pay someone to do the CAD-CAM work.
I will continue fighting the learning curve and hope to do at least some of the flat items on my own.
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Good luck and happy exploring, Richard! :welder:
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Got a nice surprise today, sample roller rockers for the cross-flow heads came in the mail.
These should be much easier to draw geometry for than the rear uprights I have been struggling with.
Being small aluminum parts my Colt VMC will have no issue at all making them.
I wonder how many sets I should aim for?
I know a few guys have these and I have never heard of any issues with them so it seems the design is sound.
A big thanks to Nick for loaning them to me!
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Thank you and Nick.
Good news for sure. Keep me informed.
Dakazman
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Scared myself.
Had a fleeting thought of making new MC's that FIT without modification.
Yah, in a country that graduates more ambulence chasers annually than the rest of the world combined!
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Unhappy with the pace of my CAD/CAM skills.
Giving in and hiring someone, I want these done!
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Where is the shock me pale faced emoji?
Got a CAD/CAM quote, $500 each for the rockers.
I can either pay or delay while learning.
Since I have a goal and time frame I will pay.
I have made some progress on this regards the axles and rollers.
I have to decide which bronze to use at the fulcrum.
And of course new shafts become a question too.
I think I will have to reach out to the Euro side to see if I may expand the market.
It will take several sets sold to recover cost before I may see a profit.
Is "Made in USA" still a selling point, for French designed engines? :confused:
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Hmm, contracting out the drawings may NOT be faster.
So I've dived in again.
Took pics of the samples, made them B&W, enlarged and printed.
Now I may take and record measurements more easily.
Surprised to find how little change of the pivot ball is required to increase rocker ratio. So anything from 1.5 to 1.65 is easily done.
It seems that stock is 1.5-1 and the samples I have are 1.63-1!
Add that to a performance cam and I expect it gets hairy fast.
The worst of this is not making the rocker bodies.
It is the small steel pieces.
I had hoped to buy some of them, but not going to work if I want to keep cost/prices reasonable.
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What software are you working in for CAD and CAM Richard?
I'd probably still consider myself a novice compared to the guys at work, but I do 10-20 parts a year on the machines in Fusion 360 without too much trouble.
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I have access to Mastercam.
Apparently it is not primarily intended for CAD.
I thought I had completed one rocker.
But several lines do not meet at the back side and I cannot force them.
This becomes apparent when I try to create surfaces.
As the old saying goes, "Back to the drawing board". :headbanger:
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Yeah, MasterCAM can be a rough ride. I've used it mostly as a CAM plugin for SolidWorks, and even that wasn't a great experience.
I do all of my CAD work in an educational license copy of SolidWorks nowadays (also still use my student ID card at movie theaters); if you have dimensioned drawings - hand drawn is fine - I can put together solid models in a universal format fairly easily.
One of my old jobs was just taking miscellaneous objects and creating CAD models with a pair of calipers and a surface plate.
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I do need to learn this.
Starting over, doing it a little different in hope that my projections will not drift and all the lines meet up this time.
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Today I got together with a full time CAD guy.
His software is an entirely different "Parametric" approach.
To say that he despises traditional CAD would be very big understatement.
I have to get this sorted quickly now, I have been asked to return the samples soon.