Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Richard48Y on Friday,March 01, 2024, 06:39:53 PM
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Found these by accident, http://www.pamotorsport.com/for_sale/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=279&virtuemart_category_id=36&Itemid=109 (http://www.pamotorsport.com/for_sale/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=279&virtuemart_category_id=36&Itemid=109)
Trying to retain the original Europa engineering within reason.
Anyone have experience with them?
I have asked for a price and availability.
Also assume S1 and S2 would be the same.
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Yup, S1 and S2 the same.
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I bought a set expecting my loctite solution to be short term so haven’t fitted them yet, mine are sided with left and right hand threads
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What do they cost?
Beside the left hand thread on one side, the design looks the same. If so, the loctite should still be required?
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Looking at the picture the journal for the outer bearing looks wider than stock. On stock axles the outer bearing rides partly on the splines- not good.
S2Zetec54 - can you confirm if the PA axles have a wider bearing journal?
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He machined the stub axles to accept the 30mm ID bearing on both inner and outer for me. Peter Alexander Is a very nice chap…very accommodating. Always planned to go and visit him.
They were between £650 and £700 back in 2021 from memory
…any help? I wasn't going to loctite them as they should be self tightening or that was my plane .i seem to remember it would need some mighty torque and therefore some well designed specially designed spacers. Current plan is to fit these when I fit Richard’s rear disc kit
Just had an outstanding day at Llandow Race Circuit thrashing around the circuit….boy did she behave well…very pleased with the day
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Standard stubs are £324 each.
So £700 for a pair would not be bad at all, but I suppose you meant each. :headbanger:
Hoping the vendor will reply soon.
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No for the pair
.....3 years ago, he's often out testing and racing....and being the start of
the season he might be busy
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Any luck getting in contact Richard?
Just ripped out my S1's trailing arms and have discovered some impressively worn splines, had the reinforced Triumph puller out and everything but the hub just fell right off the axle. I'll probably need both the axles and hubs.
Looks like Banks has the hubs and shafts for £1k GBP (1 car set)...if he would reply to emails at some point.
I recall seeing some solution kit on eBay as well, but all dead links now.
I'd rather not deal with going too far from the book on these; pretty sure modifying the original parts is completely out of the question. Not enough material left in the hub.
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I never did get a reply
Maybe we need to organize a group buy.
Selling several sets all at once might get him something expensive he is looking for?
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I was also toying with the idea of making new shafts and hubs to ~original spec, with obvious modifications like shortening the splines and using 30mm bore bearings on both ends, but also using better material and hardening the splines. Maybe a different spline profile if deemed necessary, but otherwise drop-in for the Europa. They really should be replaced as a pair anyway.
It may turn out that a fundamentally different layout of the components is necessary (moving the splines to the yoke side, as seen in some unobtanium designs), but I wouldn't go so far as changing the u-joint size or otherwise messing with the fundamental Europa suspension design.
We have a fairly similar part at work that should serve as decent price comparison (no u-joint yokes though), going to find out what those cost for the small initial batch. If the cost is ~$800 per car at qty 6-10 I'll likely put in the effort to do that.
If anybody is reading this in a few months, please bug me to update. I'll get to a y/n decision on feasibility and make a fresh post.
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Lotus Supplies sells the Banks stuff now. There are a number of aftermarket rear axle options out there already.
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Emailing Richard is a waste of time. If you want to contact him, call him on the phone. But if you want to purchase something, as JB says, go to the Lotus Supplies website (https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/) and order it.
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I've also had terrible luck with getting email replies from Lotus Supplies, but will attempt once more.
The similar part at work was $500 ea for qty 4; a bit worse than the pricing for standard replacement parts. I think if I did a medium run (10 car sets) it'd just be competing side-to-side on price with the other vendors, so it would need to be an appreciably improved design to bother.
For your viewing pleasure, perhaps some of the most blown out splines that haven't yet rounded out or been replaced. Right axle threads have some necking from overtightening, probably would have killed me if I didn't bother to check.
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Outer axles being a weak link are why I wanted to get the upgrade posted above.
I've put off assembling my rear hubs waiting for a response.
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I forgot to mention another option for upgrading the rear stub axles that I find very intriguing: VW/Porsche parts. The stub axles are the same diameter and are hardened (certainly much stronger than the Hillman Imp parts) and half shafts are available in several lengths. Here’s a write up on it: https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4782.msg51880#msg51880
Now, this requires a twin link rear setup. Richard Mann describes a fairly simple and inexpensive way to make your own here: https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1724.msg15757#msg15757 Of course Lotus Supplies sells their own twin link kit (for some reason they seem to only list it for S1s and S2s) here: https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/suspension/rear-corners/twin-link-rear-suspension-system-kit-s1-s2/
If you are intent on keeping the stock rear suspension setup, you’re kind of on your own but I would think a drive shaft shop would be able to make up something for you.
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Lotus Supplies sells the Banks stuff now. There are a number of aftermarket rear axle options out there already.
JB, I'm in the process of upgrading my drive line and wondering what other options for rear stub axles are available other then PA Motorsport. Everybody else seems to only supply stock parts.
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My effort at replicating stronger axles is not dead, just in need of funding.
Which is waiting on the sale of a Morris Minor next month. :headbanger:
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Richard, haven't followed this topic in a while but do you have the equipment to make splined shafts and hubs or is it going to be the typical keyways?
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The CNC Lathe portion will be pretty easy.
I believe I should be able to do the wheel stud holes and splines on one of my mills.
I may have to invest in a fancier dividing head.
PA Motorsport do not seem to reply, using theirs would be simpler.
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Well, there used to be a number of options but they seem to have largely stopped making them. Here's one option:
https://kelvedonlotus.co.uk/product/race-drive-shaft-kit/
There was also a kit on ebay which I have on the shelf. This was also what Banks offered.
Here are a number of adaptations:
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/suspension/aubin.html
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/suspension/BMW%20STUB%20AXLE%20AUG%202005.html
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/suspension/s2_hub_conversion.htm
I have no experience with the conversions though I would rate the Corvair conversion highly. That is what I was going to do until I picked up the ebay kit.
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Thanks, JB! I went to Kelvedon but didn't see theirs. Over $1000 for a pair is a bit rich. I have calls into PA Motorsport but have not heard back so availability may win out.
I had heard of the Corvair conversion but couldn't make sense of the drawing! I also wasn't sure about the availability of those parts. I am also reminded of the BMW conversion. Richard's drawing is a lot more clear but I still have questions. Maybe it's worth emailing him for more details.
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I believe the eBay kit is NLA.
Have never found it while searching.
I also recall there was some issue with it that I saw in a thread here.
As I said, this is not dead but is delayed.
I may have mentioned that just the steel billets to make them are now $100.00 each.
No matter who does them they will not be cheap.
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Just received a set of stock type axles* with flanges, the D-washer, and hardened spacers from Banks a few weeks ago. It worked out to 1450 USD after factoring in their proportion of shipping cost, 2.5% tariff, and the massive 1.30GBP:1.00USD conversion rate I paid at the time (the rate has fallen to 1.22 when I ultimately received the order). Taking four months to get things shipped while still missing parts and not telling me is another post though.
If you can at least match a sticker price of $1300 for 2 axles and 2 flanges that have been tested as good, they'll sell. Kelvedon was slightly cheaper on the axles but all of their other parts more expensive, my math is showing it would have been less than a 10% savings over Banks on axle parts alone.
*This car will never have more than 100hp
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IMO, the Kelvedon design is very, very good.
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Yowza!
$1,122.00 per side for the upgrade Kelvedon parts.
That may not include every piece and does not include shipping.
They are VERY similar to what I am trying to do.
I know we do not want too many fingers in the pie, no one gets a slice and everyone stops trying.
But almost $2,500 a full set?
I really need to get back to this.