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Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: mylesofsmyles on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 07:08:07 AM

Title: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: mylesofsmyles on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 07:08:07 AM
Hey all, new to the forum, however a lifetime Lotus Europa enthusiast.  We've been resurrecting a "new to us" 74 TCS in Lagoon Blue.

Now that we've got this ride on the road after a long hiatus in storage, my attention seems fixed on the Lucas Ammeter, and I'm concerned about electrical output.  The 35amp alternator doesn't seem sufficient by modern standards, and may not be enough should I decide to upgrade to real H4 headlights.

I found a write-up somewhere, documenting the modifications necessary to swap in a higher output alternator from some riddling Buick application, however the fabrication skills required to re-machine the housing and fabricate a bracket are a bit beyond my skill-set.

I have some familiarity with converting to 1-wire alternators in various different applications.  It's been nice, in the past, to ditch the external voltage regulator also, though not necessary.

While I did find a eBay seller with a "alleged" 75a alternator that'll drop in, I'm curious what the "kool-aid" solution is among y'all.  Can anyone offer some constructive insight on a straight-forward alternator upgrade that'll take this electrical system out of the stone-age?
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Grumblebuns on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 07:21:42 AM
Here's a link to what other people have done, and

 :Welcome:

https://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4297.0
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 07:32:49 AM
You can now fit good quality HID bulbs to H4 lights (not the cheap crap that just create light scatter).  They also draw less amps than the stock bulbs.  So bright lights and no need for an uprated alt.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 07:41:03 AM
 :Welcome: Myles!!
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 08:13:45 AM
Welcome to the forum, Myles. Cheers  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: SilverBeast on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 09:29:59 AM
 :Welcome:
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 09:43:54 AM
Just a word of warning, I have fitted new Lucas alternators, and they hit the luggage box. I have had to cut a pocket in the side of the tray, and fit an aluminium "power bulge" into the side. Sprayed to match the fibreglass, it doesn't really notice, and does not intrude into the box noticeably (about 1").
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Pfreen on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 12:52:33 PM
I have this alternator on my tcs.  I needed higher output because I have ac.  It fits fine and has been on it for 6 years.
I did need to install a diode in the alternator bulb feed to prevent back feeding and running down the battery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-1982-Triumph-TR7-wo-AC-2-0L-New-High-Output-95-Amp-Alternator-Generator/192965039980?fits=Model:Europa%7CMake:Lotus&hash=item2ced9cd76c:g:ztQAAOSw~bFWIUgi&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA8M3LAxlDcBkUlcIAjTZgQxwpY/9j69NXjSaOYRqwMPuANz9dAt9EcV/ywh4uILoiI4hzTjXn/q73A1uCgAHmR/jHjX2qdoEd+QZhaRzbCso/oTbUI1i0FLBpFcLYQnBEffIbtFN3E/UzR2/Kyzdg84YYnCg/UESNZmP8W0zkd8rM7ho7s08VEkerRufjf73/T+SI+k46N+eexqNB917uMFQlldDCbWOJsJ6eAO3+dFLYlxgrAV8GkhG4PCK8XtqqyDg57elXEuhfX/GMdz0QCMV0yCOefSxMvgFGkAmat7OFQsx5o5aL8n4NhTqVv8PJGQ==%7Ctkp:Bk9SR7CHhvibYg&pageci=ce0f8ec9-2d21-45a1-9601-05f8e240c8bc&redirect=mobile
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: EuropaTC on Wednesday,June 21, 2023, 10:30:23 PM
Unless you're going to increase the electrical load or your existing alternator is broken I'm not convinced you'll need extra amperage. But if you want to fit a more modern alternative, then yep, go for it.

The Lucas 17ACR will fit but is very close. I think I had around 3mm clearance when I had one on, and had to fit a right angle connector to the wiring. (1st photo)

The A127 is a higher output, very easy to wire up and much better clearance. Plus it's a more modern unit with loads of applications in the UK at least. Going from the dates on the photos, mine's been in since 2016 and works fine.

Brian
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: mylesofsmyles on Thursday,June 22, 2023, 11:43:01 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome and info fellas!

That link to the unit on ebay is similar to something I had found.  Looks like the ideal solution for a "drop-in" solution, despite still being from the "Prince of Darkness"

Maybe I should add a bit more color.  The car is running with a pertronix igniter unit, and I've since swapped in a retro style, bluetooth radio, and intend to install some Hella H4 headlights....As of now, it seems like I'm using 100% of the available electricity, so it's got me concerned.

Slightly off topic....maybe.  When I installed the pertronix igniter, the instructions advised to remove any resistors to the coil.  In my experience with other makes, the resister's were in-line, to the (+) 12v switched power to coil.  On this TCS, the resister seems to hang off the (+) side of the coil, and connect to the (yellow) wire that leads to the motorola voltage regulator.

Since it appeared that that resistor was for the voltage regulator/alternator, I left it.  Should I go remove it, and what would that help by removing it?
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: FourLoti on Friday,June 23, 2023, 01:51:45 PM
Sorry if this is a semi-hijack, but coincidentally, I just removed the alternator from my very original '74 TCS. Surprised to see that it's a UK Delco Remy unit. So either it was installed at the factory???, or a US owner bought it from a "foreign car parts" shop back in the day. Seems Delco Remy still makes a T1 style, but I've yet to find anything matching the other numbers.


Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: BDA on Friday,June 23, 2023, 02:08:34 PM
That's the original alternator. If you need one, voltage regulators are available from NAPA #VR148SB (or were about 15 - 20 years ago. I think they are very common so they likely still are). The electrical posts may not be oriented in the same way but it's a simple fix. If you open up the alternator, make sure you mark the halves so that you can make sure they are clocked the same way as when you took them apart. It might be a good thing to do now even if you don't need to open it up now as if you're like me, you might forget that detail if you do have to open it up later.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: FourLoti on Friday,June 23, 2023, 06:58:22 PM
Thanks. All the talk about Lucas had me confused when I saw mine was Remy.

I'll have mine bench tested and will keep in mind the replacement NAPA part number.

Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: FourLoti on Thursday,June 29, 2023, 11:24:10 AM
Continuing my hijack!

First off, that NAPA VR part number is still good - thanks for the info.

Next, I took mine to Advance Auto but they have a digital tester that requires a code. T1 R7 88 stamped on mine did not work. Surprisingly, their system lookup had the Europa TC listed, but that code didn't work either.

By any chance does anyone know of a different model number or designation for these Delco Remy units?

Thanks,

Ron
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: BDA on Thursday,June 29, 2023, 11:54:02 AM
I took my alternator to my local Advance Auto a while back and as I remember they couldn't really test it. I don't remember any codes that they asked me for but I think the amperage was too low for their equipment. My memory is foggy here.

You may have to take it to a guy who fixes alternators to get it checked "properly." On the other hand you might try getting your own tester. I got this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/144764781419). Is it better than what a place like Advance Auto's tester would be? I don't know. Is it better than an alternator shop's tester would be, Probably not. At the very least, I would expect that an alternator shop's test equipment would give more detailed information. It was inexpensive and got good reviews.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Bryan Boyle on Thursday,June 29, 2023, 03:00:33 PM
If you do upgrade your alternator (someone somewhere along the line, I think it was the original owner if the service records I have are correct) to a larger capacity unit...don't forget to also change out your ammeter.  IIRC, the original is a 35A...if you go to 50 or more...and the alternator starts pushing more current...that will do bad things to the indicator. 

Just a suggestion.  Like everything else, one change does have downstream changes sometimes.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Lotuswins on Friday,June 30, 2023, 08:05:50 PM
Bryan,

That is a good point, since the spade connectors on the ammeter are only rated for 35 amps, and are prone to overheating if not maintained. 

Also, since the alternator is powered off the rear of the camshaft, and the cams are driven by a very small chain, I wouldn't go crazy on an alternator upgrade, keep it to the minimum if possible.  Those internal parts on the twink are pricey!!

Jerry Rude
4005R
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: mylesofsmyles on Sunday,July 09, 2023, 08:22:31 AM
With regards to the ammeter, I had plans to switch to a Smiths Volts gauge.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Pfreen on Sunday,July 09, 2023, 01:00:31 PM
I changed the ammeter to a smiths 60 amp which has bigger push-on connectors than the 30 amp model.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: RonPNW on Sunday,July 09, 2023, 05:52:17 PM
I'm converting to a small (mini-dense) 50 - 60 A alternator,.
In looking at the wiring the long wire to the ammeter and back to all the engine and fan loads is under size. Having the meter in series (IMHO) is also an issue. With all the resistive loss in the system, before the loads, they never see the full system voltage. I have replaced my ammeter with an Air/Fuel meter and run larger wires directly to relays next to the major loads. The windows are dramatically better. It is not hard to do and if there is any interest I can put together a schematic of the changes.
I just use a warning light for any alternator issues.

Ron
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: Grumblebuns on Sunday,July 09, 2023, 07:20:23 PM
Put the drawing in the tech section.

Years ago I had a small fire in the wiring going to the ammeter behind the wooden dash, I managed to put it out with a fire extinguisher with the resultant mess to clean up. I would like to keep the ammeter but have reservations of having full current going to the ammeter. Has anyone considered or has put in a remote type ammeter using a shunt device outside the cabin.
Title: Re: Straight-Forward Alternator Upgrade TCS?
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,July 09, 2023, 08:50:06 PM
Marine ammeters typically have remote shunts.