Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Classifieds Forums => eBay - Craigslist Ads - Other Listings => Topic started by: Vegantune on Wednesday,January 18, 2023, 12:12:21 PM
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It's Back, Again. Didn't sell at old reserve. Bids maxed out at $5200. Now second time, and bids maxed out at $4550. I think we are seeing about all it is worth between the two.
Current sale:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225374699876 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/225374699876)
Previous post info:
'72 TC would have been invoiced around 02/1972. Not quite sure what to make of it. Partly put together as much if not more than apart. A lot of stuff to be reattached so much work until all done. Can't be a TCS with a 336 gearbox & frame. Something of an incomplete Frankenstein that never got reanimated for lack of a lot of things. Mostly a hot mess collection of parts from different cars with wishful thinking I suppose, but far from a complete car. Missing numerous critical and hard to find parts.
Original (unsold) listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225359374461?orig_cvip=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/225359374461?orig_cvip=true)
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There are some very good parts and a lot of missing parts. It's easy to miss this more complete description:
A 1972 Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special type 74. Big valve. Nice and clean not complete Project Car. Nice straight body but could use a re-spray. Powder coated solid chassis. Good big valve Twin Cam head with dual carburetors and a nice racing header. Engine is in the car is not good, broken head. A rare and valuable Hollbay Formula 3 racing engine block with steel caps. Engine # F3-R66-166. Comes with a steel crank and steel flywheel, twin fuel tanks, factory alloy wheels. New stainless steel door hinges, seats are in good condition (no rips or tears). Some extra parts come with the car except (Wilwood racing calipers) Missing parts: front windshield, pistons, rods, oil pan, front engine cover, clutch, starter, window motors, radiator and some door handle parts, etc. Any parts you don't see in the pictures are missing.
One of 4,257 produced type 74 Lotus Europa Twin cam Special.
It looks a lot more complete than it is but it would be a good project. I think it looks nice in the photos as it sits but with a respray, engine, dash board, etc. to be done, most of it will have to be redone.
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Dealer sale so I expect the reserve is (Too) high.
If I were looking for a TC this would be interesting.
And I agree that most of it has to be redone.
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@BDA A lot of important information that is sorely needed I did not realize was sitting under the last photo. Thanks for copying that, as it answers a lot of question I had about what they are selling. If I'd seen that, I would have not tried to guess the back story from pictures. Not sure how I missed that this morning when I thought I scrolled to the bottom, but there it is, and lists quite a few more missing parts (rear window not mentioned, but I don't see it).
However, something still does not quite make sense between the seller's claim this is a TC Special/7412080R, and stating this is a 1972 model which has a 336 gearbox. That is, unless it is a kluge of bodywork from one car bearing id plate(s) that would come from a TCS built either very late '74 or early '75, but the frame/transaxle from a much earlier TC with sn unknown at this point, but stamped on the frame. And Holbay crank/block but factory Federal TCS Stromberg head? Make that kluge #2. But then it says the head is "broken".
In my book, given this information, to me it is more of a parts car than it would be a viable project car. Someone else may be willing to take it on, but so much critical is missing here. What concerns me is the interest (and prices) of these cars appears to be significantly on the rise, creating new enthusiasm in rebuilding previously abandoned and potentially difficult projects missing key but rare parts.
As more partial cars turn into restoration projects, they create added need for used parts while simultaneously ceasing to be a possible source of those themselves. Both actions drive up the demand and prices for important used parts as they are also drying up the inventory, neither of which bodes well for a pure enthusiast. Not that I wouldn't like to see more Europas on the road, but ideally for the right reasons - passion, not profit.
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https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/listing/1972-lotus-europa-sarasota-fl-2651068
This was the ad for it which Lou posted a little while back. I guess the link is gone, but He bought the car for sub 5K. He lifted the photos straight from the original ad. Its a shame greedy people buy these things as a means to a quick buck.
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However, something still does not quite make sense between the seller's claim this is a TC Special/7412080R, and stating this is a 1972 model which has a 336 gearbox. That is, unless it is a kluge of bodywork from one car bearing id plate(s) that would come from a TCS built either very late '74 or early '75, but the frame/transaxle from a much earlier TC with sn unknown at this point, but stamped on the frame. And Holbay crank/block but factory Federal TCS Stromberg head? Make that kluge #2. But then it says the head is "broken".
In my book, given this information, to me it is more of a parts car than it would be a viable project car. Someone else may be willing to take it on, but so much critical is missing here. What concerns me is the interest (and prices) of these cars appears to be significantly on the rise, creating new enthusiasm in rebuilding previously abandoned and potentially difficult projects missing key but rare parts.
As more partial cars turn into restoration projects, they create added need for used parts while simultaneously ceasing to be a possible source of those themselves. Both actions drive up the demand and prices for important used parts as they are also drying up the inventory, neither of which bodes well for a pure enthusiast. Not that I wouldn't like to see more Europas on the road, but ideally for the right reasons - passion, not profit.
Yes, we now see that this is really a box of parts, not a partial restoration as it appears to be. I fear an unsuspecting buyer may get a rude awakening.
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The latest post on this thread illustrate some of the reasons I am in such a rush to get all my parts in hand.
Financially ruinous, but I have waited too long and cannot be left without a finished car.
Never going to see a profit on this one even if I sold in the next few years.
The rule that it is less expensive to buy someone else's restoration is still true.
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Thanks to some valuable better info from "BDA" and "Chuck Nukem", I've revised the original post including the title. This is really a mishmash of parts someone maybe thought could be turned into a whole car by finding more parts and doing a huge amount of work. If you ask me, they were dreaming.
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I might have been a bit harsh with my "box of parts" comment. After all, if someone saw what I have in my car, they might say the same thing. The difference, of course, is that my car is running and this one never has.
It's not all bad though. The old frame (assuming it actually is a TC frame, which might be too much to assume!) would make a good frame to use with an NG3 tranny - I had a 336 rear hoop welded on my frame for that purpose. The steel crank, the Wilwood calipers (the ad did say they were there, didn't it?), the block sound like good parts but then there are no cams, pistons, cranks, front cover, and who knows what else. That engine could be quite nice when it's built but will be pretty expensive to build.
It's now at $4,500. I think the seller should be ecstatic if it gets near $10,000.
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Didn't do any better, so didn't make reserve...again. Topped out at $4,550.00. Sort of worth that in parts only if you need quite a few for yourself, and have the time and energy to post others to sell and deal with payment and shipping. This is just a mess of stuff, somewhat interesting, but can't see paying a lot for it if you don't plan to use most of it. That is, to fix another more complete car, i think.
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Didn't do any better, so didn't make reserve...again. Topped out at $4,550.00. Sort of worth that in parts only if you need quite a few for yourself, and have the time and energy to post others to sell and deal with payment and shipping. This is just a mess of stuff, somewhat interesting, but can't see paying a lot for it if you don't plan to use most of it. That is, to fix another more complete car, i think.
same guy listing it on Hemmings for 19.5K? Wow. Now, for 4 or 4.5K, I'd pick up and pull down and let the parts go to active restoration efforts. But...I can tell you that I spent a LOT less than 19K for 3291, and, while not perfect, is a running and useable (mostly...) car right now.