Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: DreamsOfA47 on Sunday,November 27, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
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Ok, Gents I swear I used the search feature for this forum to try and find the info for my ensuing question but I wasn't able to find one so I'm going to ask it here...
Have any of y'all mounted Sebring mirrors or any other type of mirrors to the front fenders in the fashion of the attached pics and did they work even little? Like many my car doesn't have mirrors or any mounting holes drilled for them so I'm trying to figure out what'll be the best compromise between looks and function. If they don't work I'll take the forums advice and look at the Californians or some SAP racing mirrors JB style.
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I have never found wing mirrors very useful. Moving a mirror farther away narrows its view. Just get any old random mirror and try it for yourself.
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Ok, Gents I swear I used the search feature for this forum to try and find the info for my ensuing question but I wasn't able to find one so I'm going to ask it here...
Have any of y'all mounted Sebring mirrors or any other type of mirrors to the front fenders in the fashion of the attached pics and did they work even little? Like many my car doesn't have mirrors or any mounting holes drilled for them so I'm trying to figure out what'll be the best compromise between looks and function. If they don't work I'll take the forums advice and look at the Californians or some SAP racing mirrors JB style.
That's what I did. The OEM mirrors were useless (yeah, I know they were stock in the day, but they were mounted so far forward that on the driver side, I was lucky to see anything and the offside...well, that was there for show.)
So, found a pair of Californians in black. The passenger (offside) has a convex mirror stick-on I found at Advance Auto attached to the outside half of the mirror, driver side I left flat. They are mounted with the front screw of the new base through one of the rear mounting holes of the Sebrings. That moved it back closer to where it was actually useable; then I angled the back of the mount towards the window to give me better adjustment range.
Need to fill in the holes left over from the old mirrror on the passenger side as you can see in the photo. But, they work, and with the convex mirror (things are closer than they appear!) on the offside...you have a better view of the urban assault vehicles trying to run over you. All in all, took me about a half hour (not including the hole patching for the driver side...). And...I believe they are period-correct...;)
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I've never had mirrors mounted on the front wings/fenders of the Europa but I have on other cars for a while. As I recall the problem was the images were too small to be much use and that was on the original British Leyland Mini so they weren't that far away (minis are smaller than you remember ;) )
California style mirrors or any that have the mirror "on a stalk" or pedestal usually work on the doors after some fiddling, and they're close enough to see things clearly without having to have the larger mirrors found on modern cars.
Brian
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I've never had mirrors mounted on the front wings/fenders of the Europa but I have on other cars for a while. As I recall the problem was the images were too small to be much use and that was on the original British Leyland Mini so they weren't that far away (minis are smaller than you remember ;) )
California style mirrors or any that have the mirror "on a stalk" or pedestal usually work on the doors after some fiddling, and they're close enough to see things clearly without having to have the larger mirrors found on modern cars.
Brian
At one point, on 444R (now residing in many pieces in a garage in North Carolina...), I put on mirrors from a 1st Gen VW Rabbit (Golf) on both doors. Those worked quite well, IIRC. You do what you have to do.
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Thank you all for chiming in! You've pretty much confirmed my suspicions that they're all but useless mounted on the fenders so I'll look into some better, more useful type like the Californians or some door mounted bullet mirrors with convex glass.
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I just ordered a pair of repro Raydyot mirrors from Holden Vintage and Classic in the UK. I didn't see a convex version, but they have the glass available for another £6.18, so ordered that. Reasonable shipping. I should have them next week.
I think they're appropriate for the period of the car, and just went for it. Assuming the quality is as good as appears, I think I'll like them.
Vince
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Those do look nice! Please update us with how you like them.
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They are available with convex glass as well.
https://www.europaspares.com/racing_mirror_lightweight_gp_brushed_alloy_raydyot_style_convex_glass_92mm
https://www.europaspares.com/single_bolt_racing_mirror_aluminium_convex_lens_raydyot_style
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*Said in my best Monty Python voice* – And now for something completely different.
RX-7 FB mirrors?
Ford Mirrors?
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JB those both do look good and I'm gonna give them a good look!
Gavin, I daily an 83 RX7 and I really like the wing mirrors on that, and I have a set of yellow FB RX7 mirrors taken off of my 82 race car that are already yellow like my Europa come to think of it that I may be able to put to good use!
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Dreams, are those the kind of stretched hexagon RX7 mirrors from that era? I always thought that style would work with the Europa lines
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Kendo yes I believe they are! They do work well on the RX7 and I'd love to have similar visibility in the Lotus, bu the all know the Europa shape is not conducive to seeing out of!
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John: you seem to know all the sources! I hadn't been aware of that one. They have lots of options available for the "Raydyot" style mirrors. Interesting though to see that nobody seems to have the brushed aluminum style available with a convex mirrored surface.
Also, it seems to be the case that the UK suppliers don't generally provide very much in terms of specifications for their products. Often they don't provide the brand of an item either. That's different than the usual North American suppliers.
Dreams- I'll tell you what I think when I get them.
-V
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One of these on the drivers side works good
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This may be inappropriate of me but I have two Italian made Sebring mirrors that I bought from R.D. a few years ago. They had a hideous, very large logo embossed on the tops so I stripped the chrome off, sanded down the logos and had them re-chromed. I never did use them. I have them listed on Lotus LTD classifieds.
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Maybe some neat race mirrors?
They always look the business though I'm never quite sure they cover enough terrain. This one from 'DemonTweeks' has a single bolt fixing which is an aspect worthy of consideration for when some over-refreshed bozo stumbles past your car in the pub car park.
DemonTweeks has others as well.
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/au/lifeline-msa-formula-mirror-244324/
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Exlimey, those definitely look interesting and are also worth a good look (get it?!)
MyS1, those are definitely really cool mirrors and I do like the way they look! It's just a bummer the consensus here is they don't seem to work the best on a Europa. I'll shoot you a PM.
Gavin, those are the types of mires JB likes and though the don't look period at all they may be the way I go given the necessity for them on a ca shaped like ours. My ability too safely see the cars around me may trump the overall aesthetics of the project... the key work there is may ;)
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I got the "Raydyot" replica mirrors from Hayden.
I would say that they look 'pretty good' but not excellent.
The main problem in my mind is that the bezel doesn't fit so snugly. So there's a bit of a gap, which looks worse when the bezel fixing screws are tightened. I think with some tape or something (maybe a washer) to fill the gap and prevent the screws from bowing the bezel, it won't be so noticeable.
The real thing: photo 1. The others, the replica I got.
The price is hugely different. Realistically, there's not so much to them, so much of the difference in price is about whether you're willing to pay a lot for the 'real thing'.
The other thing about these mirrors is that the mounting bolt also serves as the fixing for the swivel base, so they must be adjusted when they're mounted, and you're not adjusting them on the fly afterward. This is no different from the originals, from what I see. I gave no thought to that potential aspect when I made the decision. I guess truly a period design.
I think I can't complain for the price, but I'm not over the moon.
Vince
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I'm not personally in the market for any more mirror styles but that's good feedback and some interesting observations. I also didn't realise that once you'd bolted that style up then you're all done with adjustments.
As you say, there's a heck of a price difference and I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay that much for an original part. Actually I am sure, and I'm not in the $500/pair mirror market :)
I can see the gap you've found, from the position it makes me wonder if the shell/bowl is thinner or of a weaker material than the Raydot ones and the replica is buckling as you tighten up the location screws ? If that's it and the mirror is fixed in the housing, maybe there's enough room behind the mirror to stiffen things up and prevent the distortion ?
Cheers
Brian
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Fotog, Have used these Raydyot's for years and they are adjustable when installed. I noticed the one you pictured had a star washer and nut. This setup requires a lot of torque and compression to retain position. Originals used a large flat washer and a fiber nut which kept tension on the unit but still allowed for adjustment. You need to find the sweet spot, but it does adjust after install. Currently have two on the race car and I can adjust if needed. The washer and nut are spares I had.
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Thanks for that information, Kram. I'm not sure: are yours the 'real thing', Raydyot brand?
Brian- I'll come back with some more observations, but I appreciate your comments.
Vince
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I highly suspect that if you loosen the bolt just a little, you'll be able to adjust the mirror.
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What I found with those knock-off "california" style is that even though they seem floppy...once they're in place and bolted down...they pretty much stay where they belong. But, being the OCD type that I am...I took them apart, and put a small o-ring in between the mirror stalk and the base. They're staying where they belong now, but still will fold up if someone (or something) dings into them.
On 693R, I bought a matched set of the ones that Moss sells...I see the new owner hasn't seen fit to change them. The passenger (right side for us colonials..) side, I purchased a convex stick-on mirror the same size and it really improved the visibility out along that side. I liked the style, and it is a period-correct mirror...
(Photo below is from the Indy show last summer...new owner took the car there...)
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Fotog, yes original Raydyots, but go to Cobra Automotive ( http://www.cobraautomotive.com ). They have reproductions and you can see what nut is supplied. .
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Those are definitely handy insights of the repro Raydyots. I'm not sure small details like that bother me too much but thats still very important to now they may show up lacking a super refined fit and finish.
Based on all y'all have said I think I'm going to get a convex for at least the passenger side, if not yeah drivers's as well, whatever style of mirror I end up getting. Considering I have some clutch work to take care of the mirrors have become much less important lately!