Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Richard48Y on Saturday,November 05, 2022, 07:53:46 PM
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One of the great things about most British cars is that they have a Competition Tuning Manual available.
MG, Triumph, Jaguar, etc. all have them, sometimes as a chapter of the standard workbook.
I have not seen any mention of such for the Europa, and nothing at all for the Renault engines.
I know we have some members here who race the Renault engine cars.
So where should I be looking for a tuning manual for my TS headed Renault engine?
This comes to the fore as I've been looking at the prior mod to my oil pan.
Someone took the trouble to divide it and add a gated baffle.
But it does not look right to me.
What I see seems like it would only hav an effect on right turns.
Nothing for left turns or acceleration.
It is also closed off at the top, so there is no direct path for oil to drain into the left side of the baffle.
I have read that the aftermarket cast pans duplicate the Gordini baffling.
I have to charge my camera before I may post a pic. :(
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Fair point – don't think I've seen one either. Perhaps that's because Renault Sport offered piston/liner kits and that seemed to satisfy most home gamers. The more advanced stuff was always going to be closely guarded by various racing teams, I expect.
Remember too, that while much of the reverence is ascribed to the "Gordini" name, the engine development of most worth was done later under the Alpine banner. There was also an entry level Formula France / Formula Renault open wheeler class in France back in the day.
Lots happens in France and elsewhere which goes unnoticed, likely due to the language barrier.
Below is a link to the sale of a 1975 Martini MK15 Formula Renault from way back in 2010.
Interesting to read through the history; many names we're familiar with are there.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18296/lot/39/
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Seeing this, there should be a wealth of information available.
"Formula Renault in 1971, Martini quickly asserted its dominance in the category, winning the French championship for an amazing 16 years consecutively between 1975 and 1990."
So who has the old teams note books?
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Remember that engines tuned for racing make for poor street engines.
Lots of good tuning info at aussiefrogs.
Sal is the Renault crossflow tuning guru and you are already talking with him.
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Here’s one post:
https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?threads/807-competition-motor.89618/
The did very well but had to be rebuilt regularly as the crank developed cracks due to the high revs. They subsequently detuned it somewhat for longer crank life.
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Not looking for a full race tune.
At the moment my focus is the oil pan and possible upgrades to oil flow.
A crank scraper seems likely to be worth the effort.
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You may be overthinking the oil pan. I raced my S1 with 807G in SCCA many years ago. Ran 11" wide slicks. Did manage to spin a bearing with stock sheet metal pan (no baffles). Welded in a horizontal baffle, but no vertical ones or any gates. Never had oiling problems again. Assume you're not going to approach G levels of wide racing slicks.
Necessity of cooling the oil is another issue.
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Here are the 807G spec sheets. Sorry about the quality, but they're circa 1970. Don't know how much they might help.
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Go the whole hog, Richard . . . ;)
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One of the future projects is a dry-sump Alfa Romeo engine in a custom tube-frame Dio Tipo build.
Had to dry-sump for ground clearance as DOHC engines are TALL!
More complexity than I would want for the Europa street car.
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I have been making notes from that old competition prep thread.
Too bad it ended without further updates.
One thing that really stands out is the comment about the followers coming to a stop against the cam base.
I do not have my cam at hand right now but I will look at that when I get it back from Delta Cams.
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I think it's a genuine issue.
I acquired an F2 Renault cross flow engine eons ago and took it apart. Below is a couple of pics of the cam.
You can see that the cam had been machined with a view to avoid the problem but the machining didn't extend far enough towards the dizzy drive.
The red arrows point to the area where the periphery of the lifter dug into the heel of the cam on both sides.
While the lifter face is fairly broad, it still seems to be quite a substantial offset from the lobe.
I should measure the lifter offset one day.
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I read in that old race prep thread that the lifters are off-set to the lobes which imparts spin on them.
The complaint was that bottoming on the cam halts spin and increases wear.
Good to see the pics you posted.
I have a lathe and vertical mill so should be able to make the necessary clearances.
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Yes, I can see it interfering with lifter rotation.
What's left unsaid is how this likely impacted the initial valve clearance settings.
How deep is the scallop created by these lifters? . . 40 thou? . . . 80 thou?
As we know, valve clearances are set when the cam lobe is at the heel position. At least two lifters on my F2 engine must have had clearances set while the lifter was resting on the then unworn area.
Imagine the first start up where the engine is supposedly taken to 4K RPM for 20 minutes as Frans suggests.
At some point later, the clearances are approaching ~60 thou or beyond. Cam lobes are then slamming into lifters flailing about because the lifter can't follow the ramp of the cam until the valve/spring becomes engaged. Not to mention the side loads as these scallops are being formed.
Dunno for sure but that's my guess as to why we see lobe damage nearer cam nose in that Aussiefrogs thread. Also notice that Frans has machined the undercut all the way up to the dizzy drive.
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Confirmed today that my cam arrived safely.
Had a brief conversation with Delta cams and they are going to deal with the cam heel/follower issue.
They also suggested another possible durability treatment.
"WPC", http://wpctreatment.com/about.htm
This treatment is popular with the Ricer racer crowd. ;)
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Interesting, never heard of it before.
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Hello,
there is this manual, for mounting the 807/20 kit to 807G.
But it is written in French.
https://www.jacques-assurances.com/wa_files/Guide_20competition1973.pdf
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Thank you.
Sixty-four pages long, but many are not related to the engine.
I will see if it is possible to translate the engine section using web translation.
I am less confident of being able to capture the images and charts intact.
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Not simple to translate as I am not at all a French speaker.
Making headway, but even after translation some words remain ???
For example, "Chemise" = "Shirt", which I think is actually cylinder? (Pistons-chemises)
I will continue the effort for quick reference but should probably expect to do a fresh translation directly from the original document before trying to order parts.
There were a lot of parts available beck in the early 70's.
I wonder what remains available today?
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Chemise kinda works for a liner or "sleeve" since shirts have sleeves but I wonder what they call a piston skirt? :)
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Crossflows were used in all sort of racing series from rallying to single seaters. I would amend your statement to "many different types of parts were available" but not many of each actual part. 807-12s and -13s were not common though "around". The actual racing engines were indeed "available" but were few in number.
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My translation effort has hit a stumbling block as I do not know how to extract illustrations to transfer to the new document. :confused:
Never had any "Nerd" classes in school as they were restricted to only the "Teachers pet's" way back then.
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voir l'image
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Jupe à Piston :
https://chafiki.blogspot.com/2014/05/les-organes-des-moteurs-3le-piston.html
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Ah! Piston skirt! :)
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"A picture is worth a thousand words"! :coolpic:
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. . . I wonder what they call a piston skirt? :)
Sounds more like a Scottish thing. ;D
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Not simple to translate as I am not at all a French speaker.
Me either.
What about one of those on-line translator sites where you upload the file?
Like this one?
https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/en/translationform
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I tried repeatedly on Google Translate. It accepts PDFs and Word docs, then happily produces a "translated" doc, still in French. At least the pictures stay in the right places. I wonder if my work IT infrastructure blocks something. Anyway, here: https://translate.google.com/?hl=en (https://translate.google.com/?hl=en)
Oh, you have to split the original file in two to get under their 10Mb limit.
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I'm thinking there should be a way to make the original PDF editable?
From there I could substitute the translated text.
Translation app I have been using is limited to a thousand characters at a time.
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Oh, you have to split the original file in two to get under their 10Mb limit.
Yes, it seems so.
Here's the manual kindly provided by Hachille, converted from French to English via the on-line translator site.
Due to file size, it needs to be split it into two files – Pages [01-33] and Pages [34-66]
The same site offered to split the original file.
From a cursory look, it appears to have worked.
But with all of these translators, a person familiar with both languages is needed to confirm no missed nuance or outright errors are present.
Files are too large to upload to the forum, so below is the Dropbox link to the shared folder. (Hope this works)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ejc2473lp7p6d4e/AACK7Yjoj_Nl7rrolq5uJxB4a?dl=0
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That is slick! 8)
Might be worth a "Sticky" under the Paddock tab.
A lot of the parts are probably obsolete but having the old number and description should ease searching.
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Oh this thread is awesome!
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That is slick! 8)
Might be worth a "Sticky" under the Paddock tab.
A lot of the parts are probably obsolete but having the old number and description should ease searching.
Is there somewhere to host the files, though?