Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Quebec_Europa on Saturday,July 09, 2022, 04:26:20 AM
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Hi people, I decided to create that threads to document and discuss our process of restoring our Lotus Europa TCS Federal.
Right now the car is on jack stands. We removed the carbs, exhaust system and the complete head.
We've discovered some weird stuff on that head, Coolant turned in jelly located in the #2 and #3 exhaust ports. I should have taken pictures I know.
But long story short, we've found a source to buy a weber head. We're going to meet the guy today.
Who has done the Elan Weber head conversion on a Lotus Europa? I know it can be done but I'm looking for advices.
Here's a picture of how the car stands right now:
(https://i.imgur.com/lsSy62Tl.jpg)
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The heads are completely interchangeable. You just have to get Weber carbs, air box and reroute the throttle cable to come up underneath.
Look up the specs and measure the replacement head's thickness to make sure it hasn't been shaved too much.
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Doesn't an Elan head need machined so the cam can drive the alternator in a Europa?
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Yes, you're right, an Elan head will need the cam recess machined in at the rear to match the cam cover. Apart from that it should be fine.
Brian
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Duh! Thanks for catching that.
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Thanks guys for your comments.
Yesterday we purchased the weber head. It's one of the latest catsing 2B type of head that was most probably on an Elan.
It also does not seem to be a "BIG VALVE" specs head, per our measurments. But we don't really care.
The head we got is in really good condition. It does not seem to have received any machining in its life. So that is good news for us.
The price was somehow a little over what we were expecting, but compared to a brand new one, it was a deal we could not pass on.
Our next step is to have it renewed, with new valve guides. Ho and also to have a groove machined for the intake cam shaft output seal.
I'll post some updates soon.
Ho and before I forgot, if some of you find pictures of an Elan groove machined head, I would really like to see them.
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Top pic - Europa
2nd pic - Elan
3rd pic - next to each other
Europa casting is different.....seal is .298" thick ....
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As it is holding an oil seal, not a bearing, it is not taking any stress in any plane, so thin walls to the groove is not really a problem.
My problem was finding an engineering shop which had the machine to cut that groove.
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The heads are completely interchangeable. You just have to get Weber carbs, air box and reroute the throttle cable to come up underneath.
Look up the specs and measure the replacement head's thickness to make sure it hasn't been shaved too much.
With 40 DCOEs, you don't need a choke cable. 3 pumps on the throttle pedal when cold, or 1 pump when hot, is normally enough to get it started unless you are in Arctic conditions, but driving a Europa on ice is not recommended.
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Agreed with it just being a seal. Valve cover is different but you have one from your other head :)
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Thanks guys for your comments and pictures.
But since I now have both heads, I was able to take my own measrements.
What I would really like to see is pictures of an Elan weber head that was machined for the output seal to fit on an Europa.
I understand and agree that the oil seal is not taking any stress, or load. But I'm a little worried about removing to much material of the head thus creating really thin walls. (where the oil seal sits I mean).
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It looked really thin to me from the photos. Perhaps you could weld in some aluminum filler in that area. I don't think warpage would be a problem. A good welder could do it no problem.
You also could probably make a small seal retainer plate that attached to the outside of the head with small screws. Just machine the head with a like 1/8" seal stop on the inside and bore through to the outside for the seal. Then just attach the seal retainer.
Good luck.
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You also could probably make a small seal retainer plate that attached to the outside of the head with small screws. Just machine the head with a like 1/8" seal stop on the inside and bore through to the outside for the seal. Then just attach the seal retainer.
Good luck.
Wow, there you're good. I thought of exactly the same solution :)
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The valve cover will help hold the seal in place, maybe the thin wall wouldn't even be a problem.....
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The valve cover will help hold the seal in place, maybe the thin wall wouldn't even be a problem.....
I'd agree, providing it's a tight fit and lined up properly so the cam isn't trying to move it then I reckon it would hold there with a dab of Loctite and no wall.
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Hello everyone, here are some updates on our project.
We removed the engine and the transmission from the car. We also bought a Weber head.
So here is what we found so far. The engine block is an early Lotus MK1 block (with the round main crankshaft caps). It has also a 4 screws for flywheel crankshaft. Most probably this engine comes from an early Lotus Elan. We knew the engine had been replaced, so now we know with which one :).
We also took some measurments and it seems the cylinders has been bored to 0.020" oversize. Pistons looks new, and they are surely not casted pistons. Probably forged/machined ones. The cylinder walls still shows cross hatchings, they really looks like freshly done.
Here are some pictures of our progress:
(https://i.imgur.com/RG9XNNHh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DLl5Xdlh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9syMtNvh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oTdLZvih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fpcQLDZh.jpg)
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How do you keep your garage so neat when doing major work on your car?!
Great progress! :beerchug:
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Quebec,
Not that I like to see you tear down your engine, but I'm learning more and more about TC engines. I also like your post because it brings out little things the books don't show and comments from other experienced TC owners. :coolpic:
One( two)other question , Why Webers and what was stock?
so thanks for the guided tour.
Dakazman
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Quebec :Welcome: Another beauty in La Belle Province. Hope the engine issues are minor. I will be in the area in October/November. PM me if you would like a visit.
Sandy
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One( two)other question , Why Webers and what was stock?
This Europa came with the standard Federal (U.S.) head with siameze ports for two Zenith-Stromberg carbs. When we removed that head from the bloc, we discovered an exhaust stud that came off almost by itself. It was put there with a kind of internal threaded insert. The stud and the threaded insert came off leaving a big hole. So that head would have needed at least some repair.
We're member of an english car club here in the province and we met with a multiple Lotus cars owner that happened to have in hand couples of Twink heads. He had about 5 Weber head (with 4 intake ports) in various shape. So we went at his place and he agreed to sell us the Weber head you see in the picture.
We're also taking the route of fuel injection and our goal is to have an engine bay that would look like this in the following picture:
(https://i.imgur.com/o2fqqual.jpg)
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That’s a pretty engine compartment!
From what I understand from the parts manual, Europas with TC motors (not Federal) came with either Dellortos (four intake runners) or Zenith/Strombergs (two siamesed intake runners). Webers are a common replacement for the Dellortos even though by some (all?) accounts, the Dellortos offer better fuel atomization.
Weber carburetored TC motors are considered to be more desirable by many but from what I’ve heard for general street use, they don’t offer a lot of improvement over the Strombergs. It’s when you go to extract more performance - and again from what I’ve heard - that is likely toward the upper performance range of street motors - that Webers make a big difference. Certainly, Webers are theoretically better because each cylinder is tunable.
Fuel injection is certainly the step above Webers or Dellortos.
I notice the engine in your picture is dry sumped and, given the placement of the oil tank, will likely experience siphoning such that if the car sits up for an extended length of time (days to less than two weeks not weeks to months) the tank will empty and you will start your motor on no oil pressure. The tank should be located lower in relation to the oil pump inlet. There are only two places I know that allow the tank to be low enough - behind the rear wheel and in front of the front trunk. To reduce hose runs, if the tank is mounted in the rear, it should be on the same side as the oil pump.
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I notice the engine in your picture is dry sumped and, given the placement of the oil tank, will likely experience siphoning such that if the car sits up for an extended length of time (days to less than two weeks not weeks to months) the tank will empty and you will start your motor on no oil pressure. The tank should be located lower in relation to the oil pump inlet. There are only two places I know that allow the tank to be low enough - behind the rear wheel and in front of the front trunk. To reduce hose runs, if the tank is mounted in the rear, it should be on the same side as the oil pump.
Thanks for that comment but in our case we are not going with the dry sump. We'll simply improve a little bit the oil pan with a better baffle system in order to prevent oil starvation during high cornering. I've shown that picture as a reference for the tidy fuel injection setup :).
So If you guys have other pictures showing fuel injected four intake ports Lotus Europas, I would be glad to see them.
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Hello again,
This link has some good Europa tc info consolidated neatly.
https://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/ggtech.htm#EUROPA
Have you seen this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lotus+Europa+tc+fuel+injection+&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ALiCzsZwTOIJuvk5yI8DKd6tIdz4Lq9fDw%3A1658663074371&source=hp&ei=ojDdYsn7E93nkvQPxaGTuAs&oq=lotus+Europa+tc+fuel+injection+&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKABMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQqwI6BwgjEOoCECc6DQguEMcBENEDEOoCECc6BAgjECc6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOgUIABCABDoICC4QsQMQgwE6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOhQILhCABBCxAxCDARDHARDRAxDUAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOgsILhCABBDHARCvAToICAAQsQMQgwE6CAguEIAEELEDOggIABCABBDJAzoLCC4QgAQQsQMQgwE6BQgAEJIDOgYIABAeEBY6BQghEJIDOggIIRAeEBYQHVC7HFj1pAFgvKsBaAFwAHgAgAG4AYgB0hKSAQUxMy4xMJgBAKABAbABDw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#imgrc=ZaBVDGj96QiwWM
Dakazman
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Hello again,
This link has some good Europa tc info consolidated neatly.
https://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/ggtech.htm#EUROPA
Have you seen this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lotus+Europa+tc+fuel+injection+&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ALiCzsZwTOIJuvk5yI8DKd6tIdz4Lq9fDw%3A1658663074371&source=hp&ei=ojDdYsn7E93nkvQPxaGTuAs&oq=lotus+Europa+tc+fuel+injection+&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKABMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQqwI6BwgjEOoCECc6DQguEMcBENEDEOoCECc6BAgjECc6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOgUIABCABDoICC4QsQMQgwE6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOhQILhCABBCxAxCDARDHARDRAxDUAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOgsILhCABBDHARCvAToICAAQsQMQgwE6CAguEIAEELEDOggIABCABBDJAzoLCC4QgAQQsQMQgwE6BQgAEJIDOgYIABAeEBY6BQghEJIDOggIIRAeEBYQHVC7HFj1pAFgvKsBaAFwAHgAgAG4AYgB0hKSAQUxMy4xMJgBAKABAbABDw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#imgrc=ZaBVDGj96QiwWM
Dakazman
Wow, thanks for these. I've now a lot of reading to do :)