Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Gary t on Tuesday,May 11, 2021, 12:17:56 PM
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I am working through first drive snags. Today's project is inoperative speedometer. I have pulled cleaned and relubed the inner cable it is nice and clean turns easily. I have checked the 90° drive at the transmission it also turns nice and smooth. I am worried about the transmission output gear are these replaceable? Is there a source (I'm to lazy to look on rdent) .
Does anyone have trouble shooting tips?
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Seems all that is left to check is whether the transaxle speedometer drive is actually turning, and whether the speedometer itself works.
Jack up the car and put it on jack stands. Disconnect the speedo cable at the speedometer and route it so you can see it. Start the car and run it in gear. Does the inner cable turn?
Yes, then check the speedometer.
No, follow the cable back until you find what's causing the inner cable not to turn. Common faults:
- worn inner cable ends
- inner cable too short
- angle drive issues
- worn plastic speedo drive gear
Speedometer, spin its drive with a small screwdriver. It should flick one way but not the other. Flicks? Hook up a drill (turning the correct way) and run it up. No flick, pull the speedometer for repair.
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Thanks John I set to go around the block and see if the flag on the speedometer cable waves.
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Ok I firmly believe that the problem is in the gear box. Now how hard is it to get at that gear. RD have what might be replacements but very expensive for a little piece of plastic. Anybody have one looking for a job?
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Jack up the rear of the car and put it on jack stands. Remove the speedo cable from the drive. Stick a small screwdriver into the drive. Hold one wheel while turning the other. Does the screwdriver turn?
If not, remove the plastic drive gear and examine it. After that, you have to pop the rear cover off the transaxle.
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I know it isn't the same angle drive but I had a problem with my Elan+2 speedo, the input shaft seized in the the pot metal housing of the speedo. Probably just from not being lubed all these years. That was enough to loosen a crimp on the Elan's version of the angle drive. After fixing the speedo the angle drive needed to be re-crimped internally as it had what appeared to be a fail point so that you didn't damage the transmission gear or speedo. If you can get at the back of the speedo I could quickly tell with a tiny flat blade screwdriver that the speedo input was seized and the source of your grief.
Ross
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I am working through first drive snags. Today's project is inoperative speedometer. I have pulled cleaned and relubed the inner cable it is nice and clean turns easily. I have checked the 90° drive at the transmission it also turns nice and smooth. I am worried about the transmission output gear are these replaceable? Is there a source (I'm to lazy to look on rdent) .
Does anyone have trouble shooting tips?
I am following this thread with interest - are you running a 4 or 5 speed transaxle - (Have I missed that bit...? ) - I hope it is the 4 speed because "popping off the rear cover" on a 5 speed, (and getting it back on) - is a mission :'(
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My snag list on 2520R is down to oil leak from gearbox, and water leak from pump. Engine out.
The gearbox leak turns out to be the oil seal on the first motion shaft, 24mm x 36mm x 8mm, about £7.50 incl postage.
Water was pouring out of the hole by the water pump puller, so an overhaul kit has been ordered from QED in Leicester.
Leaks Oil Through Unusual Sources.
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Dilkris yes a 4 speed. John said "just pop it off" most Lotus pop it off spiral downward out of control. So I may use my phone as speedometer until hibernation time. Wish there was a way to extract the gear/shaft easily.
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:I-agree: Whilst I have no experience of the 4 speed, I can vouch from experience of the 5 speed and "yes" removing (and replacing) the rear cover is "painful" :'(- and even more so if the unit is in the car...
I hope that access is easier on the 4 speed - if not - I think your phone is your friend whilst you "think about it"
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Hmm, I'd definitely rather just have to re and re the rear cover than pull the whole transaxle out. I swapped my 5th gear from a 0.93 to a 0.86. Pretty straight forward.
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Ah - but you're really clever JB - some of us - not so. :)
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Has anyone removed the rear cover?how big off a job is it? What supplies should I have on hand before starting? I am reluctant to take it apart and have it sit for weeks waiting for a part that I could have had on hand.
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If the speedo dive gear looks good, then it may well be an issue with the drive gear. They are not readily available and might take time to track one down. I would use a GPS and enjoy the summer and tackle it in the fall. Lord knows winters here are long enough to get just about anything done.
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John I agree about winter.
Everything works but output from the transmission where the 90° gear box plugs in does not turn. Is it possible to pull the drive gear and drive gear guide out without removing the rear cover.
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Yes. The gear runs in a plastic housing. The plastic housing is held in by a set screw from the side. Back off the set screw and you'll be able to pull out the plastic housing. Sometimes these are glued in with silicone sealer and removal will be awkward. Now you can examine the drive gear. Hopefully it is damaged but not the large internal gear.
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Thanks John a weekend project.
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Anything you see in these pictures which is made from Nylon are your speedo drive components - this is what you are focusing on. Good luck. ;)
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This vendor was just posted on groups, posting link here seems appropriate.
http://www.speedograph-richfield.com/
Dakazman
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Thanks for the great photos. I plan to attempt to extract the driven gear and plastic support this weekend. If successful il post what I find.
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This vendor was just posted on groups, posting link here seems appropriate.
http://www.speedograph-richfield.com/
Dakazman
:I-agree: TBH - ashamed to admit I have never heard of them - but most certainly a very valuable link.
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Small extraction.
The driving gear looks ok, the driven gear not so much.
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Frankly, that is excellent news. You now know what the problem is and parts are readily available.
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I jacked the back up to get the oil away from the drive gear, cleaned the swarf off of the driven gear put it together. The output turns with a wheel until the bad part reaches the driving gear then it stops. If I gently turn it it picks up a tooth and goes 1 revolution and stops.
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Frankly, that is excellent news. You now know what the problem is and parts are readily available.
:I-agree: Knowing what the problem is - is one thing - now delve into what caused it. Your photo seems to show not a worn driven gear but a gear that has failed in one section - suggesting that something further down the drive train seized, or approached seizure.
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Dilkris I know. The cable turned quite hard and 90° drive was also sticky. Also I have no idea when it went bad. I think I would advise new starts to pull the 90° drive out of the transmission until they get around to speedo stuff.
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I am not at the speedo cable stage as yet with my car - (body and chassis are still some distance apart :))) - but reading past comments on this forum regarding the cable I gather it runs quite a torturous route and for some members has failed often - there is mention of using a 90 degree drive into the back of the speedo instrument to assist with the route, but I cannot comment further on this - (from memory it's origin is Triumph - but I could be wrong :confused:)
I'm sure members that already have the tee-shirt for this issue will advise further and with more clarity.
In any event - I think you were lucky - your repair is quick and moreover accessible, which for a Europa is unusual. :FUNNY:
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just found this on the web https://lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40563&start=
will do this to my car then the speedometer should be correct whatever sized rims & tyres I use, possibly fit to customers Aston's aswell as our own with which i got pinched a year or 2 back by a camera
the gps unit mentioned is available from https://www.classicautoinnovations.com/contact
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Hopefully, this isn't a bad time to mention that if your speedo gear is NLA (there was a discussion maybe a couple of years ago that replacement speedo gears were not available for at least for some trannies - I don't remember which ones) or if you are worried about the drive system (cable, cable routing, lubrication, etc.) for any reason, you do have options. Smiths makes an electronic speedo that can be driven by a Hall effect sensor or a GPS antenna. SpeedHut sells customizable gauges, including a GPS speedo, that can be made to look very similar to the original Smiths speedo. Here is a thread about it here (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=660.msg4256#msg4256). A picture of the actual speedo in the dash is at the end of the thread.
I should also say that I've also trod this path. My speedo gear destroyed itself when I was driving in my neighborhood leaving me with only third and fourth gear. When I got home, I opened up the tranny and found nylon shards all over the place. I had it cleaned out and put back together. Then I replaced the original speedo with a Smiths electronic unit and eventually with a GPS antenna. I don't know why the speedo gear destroyed itself. I thought I had lubricated the cable properly. I thought I had run the cable so as not to have any sharp bends. It could very easily be because of something I did or didn't do as well as I should or maybe something shifted just a little bit in the tranny so one gear ate the other or maybe age could have played a part(?). In any case, I'm happy not to have to worry about it any more.
I just thought a different perspective might be useful.
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just found this on the web https://lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40563&start=
will do this to my car then the speedometer should be correct whatever sized rims & tyres I use, possibly fit to customers Aston's aswell as our own with which i got pinched a year or 2 back by a camera
That's very nice. If I had known about that when I did mine I probably would have gone that route as I suspect that the motor unit probably doesn't cost any more, and could cost less, than the electronic speedo and your speedo matches the tach!
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That box sounds like a great idea and not much more than a new driven gear i will be looking into this option before jumping into a new gear.
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the only problem is the owners are trying to sell it as they have taken it as far as thery can for whatever reason, as such they are out of stock
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there is company 2 miles from home https://www.digital-speedos.co.uk/contact-us-i3, i have seen them before but they have increased the range of parts & kit now
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RD has the speedo drive gears for the 336 and the 365. Not sure about the 352. GPS speedos are "ok". They don't work in tunnels, can be confused in cities, and can have trouble with large altitude changes affecting the reading. They have the advantage of not being affected by spinning tires. I use the stock speedo drive to turn a hall-effect sensor from a Ford. That drives a Smiths electronic speedo. No load on the speedo gears and very, very accurate -- if I'm not lighting up the tires.
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Is there any chance that someone has a worm grear from the end of the transmission shaft that I could borrow? A broken one would work for what I am thinking of. I would return it.
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Gary t - so there is no confusion, you are looking for the below "nylon" gear on the secondary shaft - correct ??
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Well no the one I want (don't ask) is the brown worm that is on the transmission shaft. Also it does not need to be serviceable and from a 4 speed. Once again don't ask.
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:confused: ????
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Just want to bump this up.
My request for an unserviceable drive gear is serious. I will of course return it, but do not want to be responsible for a serviceable one.
The replacement driven gear is being stored by the postal service. When they have earned their fee as storage I hope they will hand it over.
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Gary, PM me.
Sandy