Lotus Europa Community

Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Richard48Y on Monday,January 11, 2021, 05:34:47 PM

Title: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Monday,January 11, 2021, 05:34:47 PM
I recall seeing a post recently about how to fabricate a tool to keep the car a roller with the engine out.
Naturally I can no longer locate it. Tried search but apparently I do not remember the correct magic phrase.
Anyone able to point the way for me?
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,January 11, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
Here's what I did:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-3kSxq84/0/d836b5d5/X2/DSCF9508-X2.jpg)

Mine has a twin link which helps a great deal.  You have to fab something for the half shaft ends to plug into.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Monday,January 11, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
OK, I have an axle coupling design in my head.
Also a lathe, mill, and indexing tool.
Seems a bit complex to mill a spline so I hope for a simpler solution.
In any case I need dimensions of the spline and a width across the diff if I am to make a tool in advance.
Since I have no spare trans I'm hoping some one may have a drawing?
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,January 11, 2021, 09:11:45 PM
No need for a spline.  Just a piece of round bar that fits inside the spline.  When the weight is on the wheels, the half shafts are pushed inward so they will stay on.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Monday,January 11, 2021, 09:48:42 PM
I believe that is correct, I tend to make things more "Trick" than necessary in initial design.
So what I actually need is the minor ID of the stubs and overall width of the output shafts.
Two shafts and a spacer tube should work. -==-
One long shaft and spacer tube would probably work but might be hard to make turns with, like a locked diff.

I will also have to fab a fixture for the lower links but that should be simple.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: lotusfanatic on Monday,January 11, 2021, 10:21:49 PM
I'm glad that Richard asked that question (Thanks for the response JB!)

My (standard) car would need a similar device to be fabricated to prevent the car from becoming a static obstacle.

Effectively the tool would be a dummy transmission with pins (and bearings) to allow the driveshafts to turn without fretting or damaging the driveshafts.

Mark
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Dilkris on Monday,January 11, 2021, 11:10:00 PM
In any case I need dimensions of the spline and a width across the diff if I am to make a tool in advance.
Since I have no spare trans I'm hoping some one may have a drawing?
My gearbox (365) is out and on the bench in the process of assembly - I will photograph and measure for you today if this helps. I have also sent you a PM.   
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Monday,January 11, 2021, 11:38:06 PM
I'm glad that Richard asked that question (Thanks for the response JB!)

My (standard) car would need a similar device to be fabricated to prevent the car from becoming a static obstacle.

Effectively the tool would be a dummy transmission with pins (and bearings) to allow the driveshafts to turn without fretting or damaging the driveshafts.

Mark

Unless being moved around a LOT, I think it can be very simple, no bearings but yes to some grease.
I break ground on my new shop Thursday.
Having a hard time waiting for completion.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 05:08:05 AM
+1 on no bearings, just a grease-up, fixed shaft.  You don't even have to be close on the measurements.  You are just pushing it around the shop.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Dilkris on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 06:04:18 AM
In any case I need dimensions of the spline and a width across the diff if I am to make a tool in advance.
Since I have no spare trans I'm hoping some one may have a drawing?
My gearbox (365) is out and on the bench in the process of assembly - I will photograph and measure for you today if this helps. I have also sent you a PM.

For Richard48Y - please see attached photo's. "Yes" it was not simple measuring across the gearbox - (I don't have calipers large enough to do this) - so some "men and his shed technology" which anyone rebuilding a Europa has bucket loads of  :)) was adopted -  - I think however that the method employed will be accurate enough for you to do with what you want.
The drive shafts (into the diff) are 25.3mm in Dia and note I measured the position of the roll pin holes. I did not measure splines as I am assuming that you have the drive shaft yokes.
I will be very interested to see your final result because personally I think it will be challenging - I also think if someone made and offered such a "jig", (for want of a better term), for sale, people would buy them - except over this side of the pond they would probably retail at something like £1000, (US$1400), plus VAT and postage...... call it US$2000  :holdurbreath: 
Get back to me if you need more. Chris     
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 10:02:23 AM
I still seem to recall seeing where some one had already done this.
Maybe another site?

My concept is very simple at only two parts done on a lathe.
Thank you for the dimensions.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Dilkris on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
I know the attached, which is not my photo or my project as it is a Zetec with an NG3,  (but I wish it was  :))) does not answer your quest - but I see it as a simple and effective approach to being able to move a chassis around less engine. Sure you would have to remove the 2 rear "corners" - but with the engine and box already out, this would only involve removing 2 bolts, brake line and hand brake cable from each side.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: TurboFource on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 12:20:35 PM
My cheap HF furniture moving dollies allow me to move mine around no problem...should be even easier to push without the engine in it, just use a strap to hold the drive shafts up?
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Dilkris on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 12:47:24 PM
My cheap HF furniture moving dollies allow me to move mine around no problem...should be even easier to push without the engine in it, just use a strap to hold the drive shafts up?
You have said nothing wrong !!! Simple is best 
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Grumblebuns on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 01:55:11 PM
Simply reinstall the transaxle, lower links and the half shafts. Support the transaxle with a 2x4 on the frame with a coat hanger. No need to fabricate anything and keeps the transaxle out of the way. I used this method to roll the car onto the trailer with the engine and tranny removed from the car.



Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 02:25:36 PM
I am trying to avoid removing the wheels or body for as long as possible.
Do want to get the engine apart PDQ for inspection.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: lotusfanatic on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 10:31:16 PM
Simply reinstall the transaxle, lower links and the half shafts. Support the transaxle with a 2x4 on the frame with a coat hanger. No need to fabricate anything and keeps the transaxle out of the way. I used this method to roll the car onto the trailer with the engine and tranny removed from the car.

That's the easiest solution that I've seen yet!  :trophy:
(a spare transaxle would be useful if you were rebuilding the original)

Mark
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Dilkris on Tuesday,January 12, 2021, 11:45:32 PM
Grumblebuns - what is that attached to the top of the rear crossmember? (ie: That normally inverted press steel U section welded between the 2 shock mounts). It looks like a section of channel bolted to the top.   
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Grumblebuns on Wednesday,January 13, 2021, 06:39:46 AM
That U channel was a PO installed item. I did not ask the PO about it but it looks like a bottom support for the luggage box.

 
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: GavinT on Wednesday,January 13, 2021, 08:32:09 PM
Back in the dim dark ages, I saw a pic of someone who used a long piece of plastic plumbing tube which fully contained the half shafts all the way to the uprights.
The tube kept the uprights apart.

He then used two pieces of rope -  tying each upright to the opposite top damper mount.
It was a little wobbly but OK for pushing the car around the shop.
I can't remember what he did with the lower links.
Title: Re: Keeping my car a roller with engine out.
Post by: Richard48Y on Wednesday,January 13, 2021, 09:17:19 PM
I think I've refined the design down to ultimate simplicity.
An attachment cradle for the lower arms, welded to a tube which carries two shorter tubes which rotate independently on the axle stubs.
Now the trick is to be able to make all the tubes without use of a boring bar to keep cost at minimum.
Probably a couple of months before I have time to make this.