Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: surypap3 on Wednesday,July 01, 2020, 09:44:37 AM
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Looking for some ideas. Car was idling after 10 min on the road. Just cut off. I have gas running to the carbs. No spark at the wires or coil. Changed to a Pertronix coil and SS ignition module (a kit I had planned to install). Hooked module red to + on the coil, and black wire to - side of the coil. Swapped rotors, cap and wires. I have 12v at the + side of coil when ignition is on (run position). Tried to start and still no spark at coil or sparkplug wires. What other things could be doing this? Perhaps when turning the key to start, I lose 12v to coil??? Did not check this. Trying to get this running to teach grandson how to drive when visiting this 4th. Thoughts please!
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Some Pertronix SS modules would burn out if the key was left on, but the engine stopped.
Given three days to go, can you put the points back in?
(BTW, kudos for introducing your grand kid to the Europa.)
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I tend to think the Pertronix could be giving you the problem. If you used the old, original Pertronix, it might have gotten fried by leaving the ignition on too long as Kendo says. If you have the more recent Pertronix II or Pertronix III, that shouldn't be what happened because it's protected from burning out after extended periods with the ignition on.
Do you have solid high tension wires? Pertronix requires resistance wires. I did run mine for some time with stainless steel wires until I learned about the requirement for resistance wires so I'm hoping it didn't cause damage that might rear its ugly head later. Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.
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Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.
RDEnt.com sells TC wires for Pertronix.
t
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What ignition system did you have at the start? Points? Older Pertronix? Something else?
What is an "SS ignition module"?
Which Pertronix coil? 3 ohm?
How are you checking for spark? Are you holding the coil wire end from the distributor cap a 1/4" from a metal part of the engine and then engaging the starter?
You put on the following NEW parts to no effect? Cap, rotor, ignition wires, ignition module, coil?
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My guess is SS = Solid State. It usually means you replaced something mechanical with an alternative with no moving parts.
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There are a number on the market. Some have different coil requirements than others.
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Some Pertronix SS modules would burn out if the key was left on, but the engine stopped.
Given three days to go, can you put the points back in?
(BTW, kudos for introducing your grand kid to the Europa.)
The Pertronix went in to address the issue. I had points in when it stopped. So the module is brand new. Keep the ideas coming. I spent the day swapping parts and can figure this out. Thx
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I tend to think the Pertronix could be giving you the problem. If you used the old, original Pertronix, it might have gotten fried by leaving the ignition on too long as Kendo says. If you have the more recent Pertronix II or Pertronix III, that shouldn't be what happened because it's protected from burning out after extended periods with the ignition on.
Do you have solid high tension wires? Pertronix requires resistance wires. I did run mine for some time with stainless steel wires until I learned about the requirement for resistance wires so I'm hoping it didn't cause damage that might rear its ugly head later. Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.
Mine is an older but new Pertronix kit. Bought it years ago and never installed until this breakdown. But again the car stopped with the points setup, not the Pertronix. I'll have to look into the resistance thing for the future.
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Pertronix doesn't sell a wire sets for the TC but you should be able to make your own from their wires. Remember that the distributor cap only takes 7mm wires.
RDEnt.com sells TC wires for Pertronix.
t
Thank you! Ray was helping me think thru this today.
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What ignition system did you have at the start? Points? Older Pertronix? Something else?
What is an "SS ignition module"?
Which Pertronix coil? 3 ohm?
How are you checking for spark? Are you holding the coil wire end from the distributor cap a 1/4" from a metal part of the engine and then engaging the starter?
You put on the following NEW parts to no effect? Cap, rotor, ignition wires, ignition module, coil?
The points (traditional) setup was in the distributor when it stopped. SS=solid state. Maybe not a good descriptor but was referring to the Pertronix module. The Coil is also Pertronix. It measured roughly 3.8 ohms for the primary and 9.4k for the secondary. BTW, the old coil tested at 1.6 ohms and 11.2k ohms for the secondary. Swapped coil, points to Pertonix, wires, cap, rotor and plugs are 2 weeks old. Connected the Pertronix module red to the + side of coil and black to - side.
I get 12v to + side of coil when ignition is in run position and when starting the + side of coil had power (test light at this time).
I am puzzled. Ignition switch? Gonna swap that tomorrow. Running out of ideas
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Sounds like your original coil was designed for a ballast resistor between it and the ignition. Did you remove the ballast resistor when installing the new coil and pertronix distributor? You're getting 12v at the +/switch side so the resistor is getting bypassed appropriately, I think, if still installed. What are you getting on the -/CB side?
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Is the rotor actually turning? It won't throw sparks if the distributor doesn't turn....long shot but easy to check.
I once bought a Fairmont for $100 because they couldn't' figure out why it wasn't throwing a spark...I figured out it needed a $6 timing belt and the distributor wasn't turning😎 Drove the car for a couple of years and sold it for $700
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A TC’s distributor doesn’t stop turning without there being great unhappiness. Still worth checking. Cap off, crank the engine and see.
If that’s not it — and I hope it isn’t — then:
Low impedance coil means high current. The points may have burnt. Most common fail point is the condenser. Also, the point’s plate ground wire can fail. Yes, it all in what you took out but you may find it useful if you do what I recommend next...
Put the points back in. Resolve the issue. Then decide whether to change the ignition wholesale. Switching to another system just makes diagnosing the original problem more difgicult. The reason I suggest this is that Pertronix is usually very reliable. If you are not getting spark from the coil, the unit is most likely toast.
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Sounds like your original coil was designed for a ballast resistor between it and the ignition. Did you remove the ballast resistor when installing the new coil and pertronix distributor? You're getting 12v at the +/switch side so the resistor is getting bypassed appropriately, I think, if still installed. What are you getting on the -/CB side?
I don't know what to say about the ballast resistor. I have seen them on Europa firewalls to the right of the engine but there is not one there for mine. Has been running as configured since 2000. Please tell me what and how I should measure the -/CB side. What does that wire there do? My distributor wire was connected on the + side. Thanks
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Is the rotor actually turning? It won't throw sparks if the distributor doesn't turn....long shot but easy to check.
I once bought a Fairmont for $100 because they couldn't' figure out why it wasn't throwing a spark...I figured out it needed a $6 timing belt and the distributor wasn't turning😎 Drove the car for a couple of years and sold it for $700
Love your story! Scratching my head last night, I thought maybe I should make sure the rotor was rotoring. The rotor is turning. Thx
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A TC’s distributor doesn’t stop turning without there being great unhappiness. Still worth checking. Cap off, crank the engine and see.
If that’s not it — and I hope it isn’t — then:
Low impedance coil means high current. The points may have burnt. Most common fail point is the condenser. Also, the point’s plate ground wire can fail. Yes, it all in what you took out but you may find it useful if you do what I recommend next...
Put the points back in. Resolve the issue. Then decide whether to change the ignition wholesale. Switching to another system just makes diagnosing the original problem more difgicult. The reason I suggest this is that Pertronix is usually very reliable. If you are not getting spark from the coil, the unit is most likely toast.
I started to backtrack to the points system last night. They were pitted but I have a newer set. I also have another condenser. The distributor is ready to go back in this am. I will post the results. Thank you
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Is the rotor actually turning? It won't throw sparks if the distributor doesn't turn....long shot but easy to check.
I once bought a Fairmont for $100 because they couldn't' figure out why it wasn't throwing a spark...I figured out it needed a $6 timing belt and the distributor wasn't turning😎 Drove the car for a couple of years and sold it for $700
Love your story! Scratching my head last night, I thought maybe I should make sure the rotor was rotoring. The rotor is turning. Thx
As JB said, if it weren't, you would have MAJOR problems like the teeth on the cam and/or distributor would be gone, the teeth on the jackshaft sprocket destroyed or sprocket came off the jackshaft, or the jackshaft broken. I think if any of those happened, it probably would have made an impression on you and you wouldn't have said your motor just stopped!
While you are fooling with the distributor, take off the rotor and drop a few drops of oil in the hollow of the shaft. That's a job many of us forget.
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As I have discovered many times these cars are always plagued with bad ground issues. Just a thought.
Sandy
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I may have misread, is your car positive earth? If negative earth, coil + to ignition (through a ballast resistor or not) and - to the distributor/contact breakers (the distributor provides the ground for the circuit, whether pos or neg).
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You know, I wonder if the coil has been wired in reverse for a while. Technically, I don't guess a coil and points system would "care" about polarity, the flow could go either way just not as efficiently because you'd lose the advantage of heat in making the spark jump (it would have to go the other way). Perhaps someone with more electrical experience than I can correct me, but I think that is right for a mechanical system. I have no clue how an electronic system would react, but not at all seems likely.
EDIT: Off work and had a few minutes to research this that has been on my mind this afternoon. Found this article, which frankly is probably what I was recalling anyway.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig104.htm
I'm betting your coil has been wired and plugs firing in reverse with the mechanical distributor and that the electronic distributor won't work that way. New points and/or condensor might solve the problem (if those were the weak link previously), but not necessarily and I'd check polarity whether it does or doesn't.
EDIT2 - I'd also still check for whether you need the ballast ignition coil (as was apparently in when it stopped) or the higher resistance standard coil. I found the following that may be helpful:
Determining Your Coil Type (Ballast vs. Standard)
It is important when buying a replacement coil that the correct type is selected for the vehicle’s ignition system to achieve acceptable life and performance. Lucas ignition systems have often been modified over the years and determining what is required may not be as simple as referring to the owner’s or service manual.
A sight check should be performed first. Some ballasted Lucas ignitions use a ballast resistor wire between the ignition switch and the coil (+) terminal (frequently pink in color). It is also possible that an external ballast resistor may be present instead of this wire. The ballast resistor will typically appear as a small ceramic brick (with wires) mounted in the vicinity of the coil itself and connected between the ignition switch and coil (+). Ballast ignition systems also have a wire between the coil (+) terminal and the starter solenoid. If the car’s electrical system is totally unmolested these visual clues may be enough to identify the ignition coil type installed/needed.
To confirm your needed coil type it is best to make electrical measurements with a volt/ohm meter. Start by performing the test shown in the top coil images measuring the resistance across the coil’s low-tension terminals with all the wires disconnected. Note this resistance value but do NOT presume it correctly identifies the coil needed. Perform the following additional test.
Re-attach the low-tension wires removed to perform the test. Connect the volt meter between the coil’s (+) terminal and chassis ground. Temporarily fit a jumper wire between coil (-) and chassis ground. The jumper wire will insure that current is flowing through the coil and any ballast components during the test. It is necessary for current to be flowing to correctly measure the coil’s operating voltage. With the meter and jumper wire connected, switch on the ignition and observe the meter. If the meter shows battery voltage (nominally 12V), the system is non-ballasted and needs a standard ignition coil. If the meter displays anything between 6V and 9V, a ballast-type ignition coil is required regardless of what type of coil is currently on the vehicle. Standard ignition coils will have a primary resistance close to 3 ohms while ballast ignition coils are typically between 1 ohms and 2 ohms.
Using a standard coil on a ballasted ignition system will result in low spark voltages potentially leading to running problems. Using a ballast-type coil on a standard ignition system (without a ballast resistor) will result in excessive current flowing through the ignition system. This will cause premature wear of the points and potentially lead to reduced coil life.
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Reversing the polarity at the coil increases the voltage requirements to fire the plug. Only really an issue in high load, high rpm situations.
It won't be positive ground as the alternator would spectacularly short out if so.
Typically point type coils have resistances in the 4 to 5 ohm range. "High" performance point coils are in the 3 ohm range. They giveth potential for higher spark voltages but also are hard on points due to the increased primary current. Pertronix specifies a 3 ohm coil. We always opened up the plug gaps to 0.030" to 0.032" after fitting Pertronix.
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Senc, Had not consumed everything you have written yet, But I did want to say my car has the distributor wire going to the + side of the coil. Yet, I pull the Dist from another engine and the previous owner tagged it - side. I swapped my dist wire to the neg side and nothing. replaced the wire and still NO.
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Reversing the polarity at the coil increases the voltage requirements to fire the plug. Only really an issue in high load, high rpm situations.
It won't be positive ground as the alternator would spectacularly short out if so.
Typically point type coils have resistances in the 4 to 5 ohm range. "High" performance point coils are in the 3 ohm range. They giveth potential for higher spark voltages but also are hard on points due to the increased primary current. Pertronix specifies a 3 ohm coil. We always opened up the plug gaps to 0.030" to 0.032" after fitting Pertronix.
The coil that was installed when the engine stopped is currently reading 1.6ohms primary and 11.2k ohms secondary. The new pertronix coil is 3.8 ohms and 9.4Kohms. I have the points back in now gapped at about .015". Is that right? Is there a spec for the condenser? I have a newer old condenser but don't have the history on it. The distributor is connected to the positive side. Very frustrated at this point.
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Use the Pertronix coil. 1.6 ohms is too low for points.
- bump the engine until the points are closed. Make sure the tranny is in neutral.
- turn on the ignition.
- check for power at the coil "+" terminal using a 12v test light (DVOM's can "smell" voltages that aren't really there). Ok? If not, go to the ignition switch and see what's up.
- check for power on the coil "-" terminal.
- power? Then the points are dirty or there is a break somewhere. It goes coil "-"/wire to distributor/distributor points wire/points/ distributor plate ground wire/distributor/block/block ground wire/battery
- no power? Open the points with a non-conductive tool (finger, tooth pick, etc). There should be power at the "-" coil terminal now.
- still no power? Short in points to coil "-" terminal circuit: insulating washers missing failed in points or distributor wire, shorted condenser, poorly placed wire
- power?
- remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and hold a 1/4" from the block.
- open and close the points manually.
- no spark and everything else above good? Bad condenser or coil, open coil wire
- spark? You're good.
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On the lighter side, if you want to drive someone CRAZY. Swap the coil wire for vacuum hose!
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If I did this right, I attached a picture of the wiring per the Europa manual with edits in Red to show how mine is wired.
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Use the Pertronix coil. 1.6 ohms is too low for points.
- bump the engine until the points are closed. Make sure the tranny is in neutral.
- turn on the ignition.
- check for power at the coil "+" terminal using a 12v test light (DVOM's can "smell" voltages that aren't really there). Ok? If not, go to the ignition switch and see what's up.
- check for power on the coil "-" terminal.
- power? Then the points are dirty or there is a break somewhere. It goes coil "-"/wire to distributor/distributor points wire/points/ distributor plate ground wire/distributor/block/block ground wire/battery
- no power? Open the points with a non-conductive tool (finger, tooth pick, etc). There should be power at the "-" coil terminal now.
- still no power? Short in points to coil "-" terminal circuit: insulating washers missing failed in points or distributor wire, shorted condenser, poorly placed wire
- power?
- remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and hold a 1/4" from the block.
- open and close the points manually.
- no spark and everything else above good? Bad condenser or coil, open coil wire
- spark? You're good.
Kids are in town and we are heading out on the boat (fortunately its running). Appreciate all you (et al) have provided and will go thru the check list tomorrow then update. Thx!!!
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If I did this right, I attached a picture of the wiring per the Europa manual with edits in Red to show how mine is wired.
I think you've drawn your problem, the coil- should be wired to the distributor, not the coil+.
In the original, is the extra appendage off the + to which the tach wire should be attached a ballast resistor - is that still on the old coil?
I don't have Europa experience, only with my Elan and Seven - but every standard coil I've seen has about 3-3.5 ohms resistance if for a non-ballasted ignition and roughly half that (1.4 ohms) for a ballasted system. High energy/sport coils (for the Elan/Seven) are the same or slightly lower resistance than standard as I recall, like this Lucas Sport Coil: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=208&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1305&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4bu5-4iy6gIVoQiICR3dpw6jEAQYBCABEgKihfD_BwE
My understanding (though crude) is that the typical 3ohm coils are ideal when they are getting 12v from the battery - but they don't do well/can't provide spark when getting much less than 12v (such as cold starts, etc.) - so the lower resistance 1.5ohm coils were developed as they could generate enough spark even down to around 7-9 volts. The problem with the 1.5ohm coils comes when the system is back to generating 12v, like after the car is running and alternator/generator functioning - now because of lower resistance they'd be running so much wattage they'd burn up and/burn up points Thus the ballast resistor, which adds another 1.5ohms of resistance between the battery and the coil (when not starting).
It seems to me your original coil was intended for a ballasted system (whether the ballast resistor is still there or still good, tbd I guess). If it wasn't actually ballasted, then it may have burned up (or burned up the points and condensor) due to excessive wattage. Your new coil is designed for non-ballasted systems, and appears to be wired incorrectly. It may be that simply changing the wiring to the distributor will have you going. If not, I'd begin to suspect there is a ballast resistor somewhere between the ignition and the coil, and adding 1.5ohms to the 3ohm coil would probably be enough resistance (as I understand it) that a good deal more than 12v would be required for a solid spark. I welcome being corrected if I've misstated something.
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Obviously it's wasn't wired that way or it wouldn't ever have run.
Your coil is 1.6 ohms. That is actually correct IF you have the ballast resistor shown in the wiring diagram. Otherwise fit the 3 ohm coil and leave the WY wire off. The diagrams calls the ballast resistor a "cold start coil". The WB wire goes from the coil to the distributor. Your tach runs by measuring impulses on the ignition side. There shouldn't be a wire from the coil "+" to the distributor/points.
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Obviously it's wasn't wired that way or it wouldn't ever have run.
Your coil is 1.6 ohms. That is actually correct IF you have the ballast resistor shown in the wiring diagram. Otherwise fit the 3 ohm coil and leave the WY wire off. The diagrams calls the ballast resistor a "cold start coil". The WB wire goes from the coil to the distributor. Your tach runs by measuring impulses on the ignition side. There shouldn't be a wire from the coil "+" to the distributor/points.
If that is the resistor and he has it on the 3ohm coil, the other symptoms make sense too. At "run" he's getting full 12v at the coil through WY, but not at "start" because its coming through W and the resistor. As you said, the big issue is the distributor is wired to the wrong side of the new coil, so current is not flowing through the new coil at all - but with the 3ohm coil W needs to go straight to the terminal and not through the resistor, correct?
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Diagnosis over the phone is always a difficult process. That's why is best to go through things step by step rather than make wholesale changes. Yes, the 3 ohm coil should have the white wire hooked up directly the "+" terminal.
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We had expected rain today, instead full sunshine. So we are hitting the water again. I will get on the check list and comments probably tomorrow. So, again, thank you all and I will update tomorrow. Happy 4th! BTW, tho I wanted the grandson to drive the Europa this weekend, he is getting a lot of boat driving experience!
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We had expected rain today, instead full sunshine. So we are hitting the water again. I will get on the check list and comments probably tomorrow. So, again, thank you all and I will update tomorrow. Happy 4th! BTW, tho I wanted the grandson to drive the Europa this weekend, he is getting a lot of boat driving experience!
Even better, enjoy!
Around here the 4th has become a time the locals stay off/out of the water - just too many overindulging, underthinking, and inexperienced boaters clogging the waterways!
Happy 4th!
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Is there a spec for the condenser? I have a newer old condenser but don't have the history on it.
I don't want to muddy the waters here, especially as you are closing in on a solution, but it is worth mentioning that commonly available condensers are junk, even those available in the little green Lucas box. Check here for more info http://www.distributordoctor.com/distributor_condensers.htm . I chased a nagging ignition problem for two years, replacing the condenser with a new 'Lucas' unit in the process, with no improvement. I then learned about the Distributor Doctor condensers, bought a couple, fit one, and the problem vanished.
I know this is not the initial problem you are chasing, but if fitting a new condenser, I highly recommend the Dist Dr unit.
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Pulled an old Lucas manual for another purpose and found these simple ignition circuit drawings - thought they might be useful for the OP and/or others...
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Company and work kept me away. Started on jb's checklist. Last Mon I got test light to go on at + side of coil with ignition on. Started looking again today and got nothing at the +. I guess looking at ignition switch is next.
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Points closed, Ignition switch on ....... test light lit at + coil. Lit on negative side too. Cleaned points ... still lit on - side coil. Opened points still lit on - coil.
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Excellent! It's far easier to diagnose an actual issue than a generic "There's no spark."
First, is the coil "-" wired to the points in the distributor. This is usually by a white wire with a black tracer (WB).
If no, then make it so.
If yes, then follow the circuit/wire until we find the "open".
Touch coil "-". There's power?
Touch where the wire attaches to the distributor.
No power? Break in wire between coil and distributor.
Power? Touch where the wire attaches to the points.
No Power? Break in wire between points and where the WB wire attaches.
Power? Touch the moving side of the points.
No power? The wire to the points is attached incorrectly. It's insulated from the point arm. Sort the insulators to make it right.
Power? Touch the fixed side of the points.
No power? The points are dirty, or not touching.
Power? Touch the plate the points are attached to.
No power Points are insulated from the plate (unlikely but it's part of the process).
Power? Touch the distributor body.
No power? The distributor plate grounding wire is broken or missing.
Power? Touch the distributor body.
Power? Somehow the distributor body is not grounded. Maybe gaskets used to seal a leak?
That should be it. Somewhere in that flow you should find the issue.
Good luck and report back!
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Thank you. Will get on it today.
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Through the checklist down to points. Power not crossing points contacts. Cleaned them but still no power on the fixed side
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Now this just happened as I turned the ignition back on. Perhaps closer to solving the problem???
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Yep
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I have a parts distributor I will steal from today.
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That bit looks toasty. Once you get things running, be sure to try to trace back to what happened to try to prevent recurrence or something else frying. IIRC, you have a low resistance coil and if you don't have a ballast resistor in front of it your coil and distributor bits won't last long.
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I think you found the problem.
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Thanks. I hope so. I will be busy over the next couple days but will update you. For confirmation ..... set the points at .016" gap? Also, the other wire coming off the - coil side powers the tachometer? Thx
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Maybe. Picture would be helpful, or the wire colours.
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Still struggling with "power on the negative coil side always on". I am setting up a bench test with the ignition system components separated from the car. Does that make sense to rule out component problems?
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I can't see the need of a test bench myself. Somehow the power is not crossing the points to ground. This should be an easy thing to diagnose.
- put the car in 4th gear
- nudge the car until the points are closed
- put the car in neutral
- remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and hook it to a spark tester
- turn on the ignition
- put a test light on the coil negative terminal. The test light is lit
- connect a "jumper wire" to a bolt on the engine block
- touch the other end of the jumper wire to the coil - terminal. The test light should go out and the coil wire emit a spark. If it does, carry on with the test. If not, report back in this thread.
- Touch the jumper to the WB terminal on the outside of the distributor. No spark? Broken wire or bad connection between the coil and the distributor
- Test light out and spark? Touch the jumper to the connection on the points. No spark? Broken wire or bad connection between the external connection and the points (which is what I thought you had already found)
- Test light out and spark? Touch the jumper to the side of the points fixed the the distributor plate. No spark? Dirty or burnt points.
- Test light out and spark? Touch the jumper to the points plate. No spark? Hardly like, report back if so.
- Test light out and spark? Touch the jumper to the distributor body. No spark? Broken or missing distributor plate ground wire.
- Test light out and spark? Check engine and battery ground connections. Though hardly likely to be the issue if the engine cranks over.
Would also like to mention that you have not reported back on the wire colours and positions at the coil yet. I can only help if you answer questions.
Good luck
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OK. I will give this a try today. Back to you soon. Thx
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So the bench test worked (not necessary but I had the dist out to check the points and reset gap). Installed in the car, I get spark. Stopped there because I don't know which side of the coil this white wire (maybe Tach???) goes in the attached picture. Previously it was on the - coil and the dist wire was on the + coil. Not I put back the dist wire to the neg side.
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That's not stock wiring. Leave it disconnected for now. Ignition power to coil positive and wire to distributor to coil negative.
Starts and runs?
Excellent.
Tach working? You are done.
No tach? Also hook up the WB wire to the coil negative and see if it works then.
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Well ... I was so happy to get spark that I stopped there. My timing is out of whack. Somehow I was not careful in dropping in the dist and I have the rotor pointing to #2 when #1 piston is TDC. Try clock the dist properly tomorrow. Keep you fingers crossed! Will update tomorrow if I can get back on it. Another set of grandkids are coming and my wife has me doing readiness chores. Thanks very much for hanging in there.
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Worked on it a bit today. Timing light tells me ignition is set at 10 BTC. Should be 5 I see but I had 10 deg stuck in my mind while playing with it. Gas is pumping to the split at the carbs. Getting back fires through the exhaust. Pulled a plug and not really as wet as I thought I might see. WIRES are 1342 in counter clockwise order. Backfires make me think of firing order. Thoughts?
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Any chance the position of the distributor on its drive shafts is 180 deg. out. I had the same problem on my MGA - backfire when trying to start. I removed the distributor drive , turned it 180 degrees, reinserted the drive shaft and distributor and it fired up.
Tom
74 TCS - 4605R
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Spark plugs out. Put in 4th gear. Finger over #1 spark plug hole. Nudge it forward until you start to feel pressure under your finger. Now watch the timing marks. Nudge it forward until it is at TDC, it should just be a short distance. Now see if the rotor is pointing to the wire going to #1 cylinder.
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I find it hard for me to see where the #1 spark plug wire is. On my distributor (Lucas 23D) the cap has the wires coming out the side of the top (see http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/m/tcma.pdf), there is a small line or notch on the edge of the housing of the distributor under where the cap goes and the rotor should point toward that notch when the #1 plug fires.
Alternatively, you can pull the plugs out and ground them, turn on the ignition and you can see which plug fires when you think you are near TDC of #1 using JB's method. The ignition timing is supposed to be set statically and this is one good way of doing that.
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Spark plugs out. Put in 4th gear. Finger over #1 spark plug hole. Nudge it forward until you start to feel pressure under your finger. Now watch the timing marks. Nudge it forward until it is at TDC, it should just be a short distance. Now see if the rotor is pointing to the wire going to #1 cylinder.
Understood. I will try this afternoon. Otherwise, My wife is going to make me send it to a shop ..... so my manhood is in jeopardy! I keep telling her we are very close to solving this.
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I find it hard for me to see where the #1 spark plug wire is. On my distributor (Lucas 23D) the cap has the wires coming out the side of the top (see http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/m/tcma.pdf), there is a small line or notch on the edge of the housing of the distributor under where the cap goes and the rotor should point toward that notch when the #1 plug fires.
Alternatively, you can pull the plugs out and ground them, turn on the ignition and you can see which plug fires when you think you are near TDC of #1 using JB's method. The ignition timing is supposed to be set statically and this is one good way of doing that.
Much appreciated! Wish me luck.
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Good luck!!!
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The Eagle has landed! Thank you guys!!! in the end, I was 180 deg out. As to the last things I did on the electrical problem were making sure I had a good ground; a new coil; and it was never wired correctly at the coil. So I can't point to the 1 thing unfortunately. Thanks again to all!!! My wife was threatening to have it towed to a shop. Kind regards. Jack
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Congratulations!! :beerchug:
:lotus:
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:pirate: well done.
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Glad it's sorted without your wife having you replaced.