Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Footer on Tuesday,March 10, 2020, 02:46:02 PM
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Hi Guys,
I am certain I saw a posting that gave specific information about which serial numbers were associated with JPS cars, but i'm not able to locate that now. I saw an auction listing for a 1975 car that has the paint of a JPS car but the listing is limited and provides little information. I'm convinced that it is not a JPS, but wanted to confirm that via the serial number.
The car is listed for an Elkhart, Indiana, RM Sotheby auction for early May. The posting lists the vin number as 73053463R.
Can anyone point me in the right direction ?
Thanks.
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It was discussed here.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1448.0
Dakazman
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Thanks Dakazman, just what I was looking for.
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I saw an auction listing for a 1975 car
The posting lists the vin number as 73053463R.
Not a good start by the auction company.
That car was built May 1973, and should have been invoiced around October or November 1973. So how can it be described as a 1975 car?
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I saw an auction listing for a 1975 car
The posting lists the vin number as 73053463R.
Not a good start by the auction company.
That car was built May 1973, and should have been invoiced around October or November 1973. So how can it be described as a 1975 car?
don't know real answer but one possibility is that it sat in a dealership showroom and not purchased until a year later.
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I don't recall ever hearing of a 1975 Europa from someone who knew what they were talking about, even though the model year was commonly stated as the year it was sold. For example, mine was sold to me as a 1974 even though it was manufactured in 1973 and sold to me in 1975. There was a 1974 1/2 Europa that had the gas struts for the boot lid and biscuit interior and maybe somebody rounded up!
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There was a 1974 1/2 Europa that had the gas struts for the boot lid and biscuit interior and maybe somebody rounded up!
I have 4259R, 4483R and the keeper 4688R, one of the very last batch exported to the USA. I am told 4701-4710 were the last Federal spec cars, but were sent to Japan, presumably as the export licence to the USA had run out due to emission or type approval problems.
These 3 cars had the struts, the cloth inserts in the seats, and the map pocket on the bulkhead between the seats.
These 3 were built Feb-April 1974. It seems that cars from about 4250-4710 were made Feb, March, and April 1974 when it seems Hethel were flat out producing Federal spec cars as quickly as possible to get them to the USA before whatever the magical cut-off date was. That makes about 460 cars in say 60 working days, or 8 a day.
Q cars exported to Europe seem to have lasted until August 1974, and P cars for the home UK market carried on until March 1975, with my first car, 75032429P, a RHD car with a Federal bodyshell, so presumably Lotus were using up all the shells they had lying around while they converted to full Esprit production.
In the 33 months they were making TCS, they seem to have made about 3130 TCS of P, Q, & R, types, so that equates to 3130/715= 4.4 a day on average.
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I need to amend my earlier supposition. I have now heard of a 1975 Europa (I'm willing to call a car built in 1975 a 1975 even if it is otherwise indistinguishable from the 1974 model) from someone who knows what he's talking about! Thanks, Alex!
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Sorry guys, my mistake. It is described as a 1974, not 75.
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It's ok, Footer. It gave us something else to talk about!
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Sorry guys, my mistake. It is described as a 1974, not 75.
Almost every seller not familiar with Lotus thinks the "74" at the beginning of the VIN means 1974 model year, not Type 74.
t
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Lotus 46 (1966–1968): Original Renault-engined Europa
Lotus 47 (1966–1970): Racing version of Europa
Lotus 52 (1968): Prototype Europa Twin Cam
Lotus 54 (1968–1970): Series 2 'Europa' production car.
Lotus 62 (1969): prototype Europa racer
Lotus 65 (1969–1971): Federalized Europa S2
Lotus 74 (1971–1975): Europa Twin Cam production car
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Uh. Surf. My actual VIN is 73063635R.
Checking here (http://www.race-cars.com/utility/lotusr.htm) we note that I have a Type 74 Twin Cam (as opposed to a Type 74 which is an F2 car). A Type 73 is an F3 car. Oddly, while there is a Type 74 and a Type 74 Twin Cam, the initial S2 is a Type 54 (there is no other Type 54 designation). Similarly, the Federalized S2 is a Type 65 (there is no other Type 65 designation).
The format of the VIN changed, I believe more than once for Europas, and I think it ended with the YYMM####X format where YYMM is the year and month of build, the #### is the serialized part of the number and X refers to the market.
Don't take this as a criticism, Surf. This is not something I worry that much about. Till about ten minutes ago, I did not remember (I suppose I had seen the page I linked to before) that I had Type 74 Twin Cam rather than a plain old Type 74.. I also thought at one time that the original color was embedded in the VIN since the registry at lotus-europa.com knew the color before I added my car to the registry. Obviously, that's not true.
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Uh. Surf. My actual VIN is 73063635R.
Checking here (http://www.race-cars.com/utility/lotusr.htm) we note that I have a Type 74 Twin Cam (as opposed to a Type 74 which is an F2 car). A Type 73 is an F3 car. Oddly, while there is a Type 74 and a Type 74 Twin Cam, the initial S2 is a Type 54 (there is no other Type 54 designation). Similarly, the Federalized S2 is a Type 65 (there is no other Type 65 designation).
The format of the VIN changed, I believe more than once for Europas, and I think it ended with the YYMM####X format where YYMM is the year and month of build, the #### is the serialized part of the number and X refers to the market.
Don't take this as a criticism, Surf. This is not something I worry that much about. Till about ten minutes ago, I did not remember (I suppose I had seen the page I linked to before) that I had Type 74 Twin Cam rather than a plain old Type 74.. I also thought at one time that the original color was embedded in the VIN since the registry at lotus-europa.com knew the color before I added my car to the registry. Obviously, that's not true.
Err...
I guess I'll refrain from criticizing people who are "not familiar with Lotus" for a while. I'll be eating that nice big fat slice of humble pie now.
tom
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In my defense, I guess I was referring to VIN number as opposed to chassis number, such as these that appear in the registry.
t
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And now you may have a point. I didn't know there was a difference between the VIN and chassis number! :) Because I no longer have the original frame, I wouldn't be able to check.
I think we should all, including me, cut people some slack about many of the finer points about our cars. I've been impressed by the differences between the S2 and TC and even more impressed by my ignorance of the large number of differences (They look pretty much the same and their only real difference is the motor, right?). I've had my car since new and I rebuilt it about twenty years ago so while I might have some insights many might not have, I still find a lot of things I don't know.
I get some people, who seemingly should know better, who think the bump in my roof was standard. Some people relate the Lotus Fords of F1 and Indy and think that's what I have since it says 'Ford" on the cam cover. People ask me all sorts of what I consider strange questions about the size of my engine or the number of cylinders. The guy who sold me my first one said he used to race in F1 and that the front anti-roll bar just needed to be tightened when the stud had broken off the shock. I was told many years ago that the rear toe was not set accurately at the factory and could have been as much as 1/4" or more (I've since disabused myself of that notion, but of course it's irrelevant, too.).
In other words, put your pie away and save it for if you or I ever see the salesman who told me he drove F1! :)
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surfguitar58
I'll be happy to share my slice with you.
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I try to be ignorant and learn from others. Keeps me out of trouble that way........
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I claim great expertise at the former and work at the latter.
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Hmmmm, yes we all want knowledge!
Out of 100 or so builds how many members of this forum have an original? I like information straight from the proverbial horse . Maybe even Lotus motors .
Dakazman
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Interesting. I looked at the listing today and it's described as a 1973. Who's writing the copy?
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When I was searching for a black JPS Europa with one of those plastic number disc’s I contacted Andy at Lotus to get some perspective. He told me the factory did not have the info on which serial number cars got the numbered disc. The JPS Memorablia (numbered disc, JPS jacket and other trinkets) were sent to dealers and they provided to new owners who bought the cars. I have heard there were only supposed to be 100 numbered disc’s but somehow 200 ended up being the number range.
I made the decision that buying a JPS car for a premium because of a plastic disc with a number was just not worth it (before I get slammed, I’m not a collector of original cars).
Last year I almost bought a wrecked JPS with the disc because the market was so frothy for this. Then my better senses took over (would have cost too much to restore) and I backed away.
As always, an original un-molested JPS Europa will bring the right value. Just make sure you keep it that way.
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I am re posting this original document for our new members, as what Certified said...
the badges were a dealer promotion. There were no assigned chassis #'s for the commemorative plaque.
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5 MPH bumper. Mmhm.
So what were the low profile tyres? Still on 13" wheels?
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Back then, 5 mph bumpers really meant that if the car hit a wall at 5 mph, it would have no more than a certain value of damage. When I was younger and even stupider, I ran mine into an aluminum portable barrier weighed down with sandbags at probably 30 mph (possibly higher) with only some cosmetic distortion to the bumper so I don't think they were kidding about 5 mph bumpers!
The low profile tires they were talking about were the 175/70-13s in the front and 185/70-13s in the rear.