Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: FROGUS on Friday,February 21, 2020, 11:20:39 AM
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Hi everyone
:newhere: I'm 50, I'm French and I'm thinking of buying a Lotus Europe
I owned and still own classic cars, some drive often, others are in need of a restoration ...
So why the Europe? Because I like the shape since I got a matchbox model when I was a kid and I never owned an affordable classic sport car yet, and my wife likes it too!
I spotted one and I'm in touch with the owner : it's a 1968 S2 with S1 body. t has the non crossflow Renault engine. It spend it's life in Sweden, 3 owners , the actual owner bought it few months ago and he's forced to sell due to family problems. He told me that it's a really good car (even if he didn't drove it a lot ), the frame was replaced 8 years ago and it was serviced as it should be. The body is very well he said, BRG with a yellow stripe in the middle
I'll see and test it as soon as it will have the french registration
Hence my presence here: I read about this car but it's better to get tips and advices from those who know.
I wonder if you don't mind telling me what to look at in particuliar on this model to avoid mistakes
Thank you for reading me and to welcome me on this forum
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:Welcome:
Frogus
Glad you found your way here ! Your English is Excellent. Many members here share your love for the Europa and have similar stories. I to like the look of the S1 in my S2. I have only driven one once and was not disappointed. I think I know why Lotus says , for the drivers..., the Europa handled better the my old jaguar XKE.
Feel free to post pictures when you hopefully take possession of your dream.
Dakazman
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:Welcome: FROGUS!!
Beyond the normal things to watch out for (corrosion everywhere - frame, brakes, etc.; suspension and steering looseness; engine and tranny condition), I would pay attention to the interior because Europas tend to leak so there could be corrosion and/or rot there if it isn't taken care of.
Since your frame is only 8 years old, you might try to find out how the frame was prepared before assembly (what sort of paint used, any enhancements such as better access to the steering u-joint, what sort of cushioning was used). You'll obviously want good paint and closed cell foam for padding rather than something that will retain moisture. Check for rust on the frame regardless of how new it is. Put it on a rack and try to look everywhere - especially all around the 'T' and on the inside of the backbone.
See if you can find out when the rear bearings were replaced as that is a weak place on the S2. The same pertains to brakes and brake hoses and clutch.
Let us know if you get it and don't forget to post some pictures!
Good luck!
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If the frame/chassis has been replaced, that's great news. If you can, get it up in the air and confirm. Check especially for any bends or kinks where the front a-arms attach. Check all the arms are straight and true. Check all the bushings. With the weight off, move the top of each rear wheel in and out. There should be no play. If there is, figure out where. Bushings are easily changed, u-joints a little harder but play between the inner half-shaft yoke and the transaxle may be serious.
Check compression (should be high as the CR is 10.25:1), clutch release height, transaxle for noise, in other words all the usual things. Engines are not powerful but are smooth, quiet and love to rev. Original carbs problematic. Commonly switched to a Weber.
Gearshift mech is long and complicated, and prone to wear. Parts are available but can be a pain to fit.
Check door hinges for play/drop. Hinge replacement can be challenging usually requiring two more hands than you have available. DO NOT LEAN ON THE DOORS EVER !! Shoot people if they do so.
Body work and paint is expensive and time consuming to do right.
Ashtrays are rare and expensive.
Usual British car electrical issues with poor connections, cheap switches and bodged repairs by previous owners. It actually all works pretty well if left stock and proper repairs performed.
Seat frames and slides rust out.
Door windows are slow to open or close.
DO NOT TOW THE CAR BACKWARDS !! The rear latch is weak. Strong wind pressure will cause it to slip out of place, the rear cover to open, fold itself over the roof and smash the windshield. This is the fastest way to take a 100 point car and make it a wreck.
Almost everything is available. Most cheap but some $$$.
Hope it checks out. Post photos if you are able!
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+1 on BDA's concern about rear wheel bearings and axles!!
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Thank you very much for the warm welcome!
I really do hope I can make the deal and have the car if it's in good condition
I'll watch carefully the drawings in the parts catalog to locate all the weak points
I'lllet you know for sure
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A belated :Welcome: Frogus, your thread title made me smile... :)
As has been already posted, you can get pretty much everything for these cars although sometimes you might be forced to buy good used parts. Even so, the Europa has had quite a lot of development considering it isn't as high a profile as the Elans of the period.
So you can buy alternative suspension parts, hub carriers, brakes, gearboxes, etc. Of course if you want originality this isn't so good, but if your interest is in having something that looks like a 1960s car but handles better and is more reliable, then it's quite possible. DIY servicing was popular back in the 60s/70s, so there's nothing your average home mechanic can't handle.
That's the oily bits out of the way so I'd point you to the bodywork.
Paintwork on these cars, unless you can spray yourself, tends to be expensive. We have one member here who's doing a stunning job on his Europa (Dakazman) but it's his forte and has taken a lot of time to get there. So look carefully and decide if the paint is good enough for you to live with, at least until you have driven the car for a while and made your mind up if it's a "keeper" or not. In the UK it's not unknown for £8k-£10k resprays, which in the case of the Europa, is probably at least half the value of the car.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Well, I'm not obsessed with originality. If prefer having a reliable car I can drive where an when I want and therefore anything that can help is welcome . As long as it doesn't spoil the look and the "spirit" of the car.
I think I can carry the work on the car by myself with some good advices!
I don't know if the car has already be improved
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As I understand it, it's not possible to check the coolant pipes as they run inside the frame, right?
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You are essentially correct. There are only a few things you can do to check them. Obviously, if the coolant makes it to the radiator and back, they are at least continuous. There is an access hole under the elbow pad where you can look at them and check for rust. You can also look down the backbone from in front of the engine. You can get some indication by pulling off a hose and seeing if there is any rust in the tube there.
If there is a problem with the tubes, I think your options are to make your own or buy stainless steel tubes (and paint them black to make it look like they are original. I would choose the later but then I have very little concern about originality! :)
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Bienvenue Frogus!
:Welcome:
Mark
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Spent it's life in Sweden? And perhaps exported in november 2019 to Belgium? I recognise this as a member in the Swedish Lotus car club had one that fits the description. He owned it for just a year before selling it though.
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Merci Mark!
Thank you for the answer BDA. As I never see this car in real, I try to collect informations on the web with pictures and texts.
As the Frame as been changed, I hope they changed the pipes for non rusting ones.. BTW, I read that the rear suspension is prone to break ....scarry! Is it so common? Is there some warning signs ot things to check? I saw that there's a solution with the twin links rear suspension kit from Banks, is it a a simple bolt on job which can be carry with the body on?
Lahi, that 's the one!! The actual owner told me that it had been sold new in Sweden, had three owners , the last one kept it for just a year as he was to tall to enjoy it (that's what I was told) Do you have informations on this car? If so, you can PM me ;)
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Lahi, that 's the one!! The actual owner told me that it had been sold new in Sweden, had three owners , the last one kept it for just a year as he was to tall to enjoy it (that's what I was told) Do you have informations on this car? If so, you can PM me ;)
Must be the same car. I have sent a message to the last Swedish owner on facebook Messenger to see if he wants to share some info. He has a few pictures too but I want his permission to share them as they are his pictures. I'll send them if I get his ok :)
I haven't seen the car live but looking at the pictures and reading what he has written on the Swedish Lotus Car Club Facebook page when he owned the car it seems to be in a really really nice condition.
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Wonderful!! Thank you lahi :beerchug:
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There's nothing wrong with the rear suspension. The rear bearings for the S1 and S2 are marginal but I haven't heard of any real problems with the half shaft as upper control arm. It was used on all Europas. I should say that I have the twin link rear suspension you mentioned so if there is a weakness, I could have easily missed it. Setting up the half shafts does require you to properly shim the u-joint yokes on the output shafts.
There are a couple of twin link designs. Banks' is the easiest to implement since it comes in a kit. I believe they all maintain the stock geometry and if not, they are very close to the original. The Banks kit replaces a u-joint with a CV joint. Any twin link design will require a new hall shaft since it now has to change length. This takes load off the tranny so theoretically, it should enhance its life. The Banks kit doesn't require you to take the body off to install.
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Well I saw a video in which a French Europe's owner explains he broke two half shafts and read here and there that some people were overtaken by their own rear wheel...
I didn't realized that you have to purchase new shafts and fit CV joints along with the kit
May be I worry too much! First step is to buy the car, drive and enjoy it and then think of improvements
I can't wait to see it
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I have a hard time imagining what it would take to break a half shaft. The stub axles are another matter. They came off the Hillman Imp. They are not hardened. I have heard of some instances where the threaded part of the stub axle came off but I would not in any way say it is common. Having said that, I am looking into upgrading my half shafts, stub axles, etc. with VW parts. (One wonders why Lotus didn't start with them!) Our own Andy Harwood started down that road and explained some of it here (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2414.msg28915#msg28915). It requires some study but it seems like a good option. There are several.
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May be he said half shaft but it's the UJ or yoke which broke
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Like just about everything on an old car, U-joints are things that need to be lubricated and monitored and eventually replaced. Hopefully, the replacement happens before it brakes! :)
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The Banks twin link kit does not require new half-shafts. You just don't fit the roll pin. Movement of the inner yokes on the transaxle output shafts is minimal as the twin link pivots are located very, very close to the original pivot point. I can dimly remember someone measuring how much movement there was and a few millimetres comes to mind.
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Thanks for the clarification, JB. Mine came with new half shafts and a CV joint for each side. That may have been because I told Richard of other modifications I was making. I had also assumed that the splines were not appropriate for such sliding. Lastly, now that I think about it, since the geometry is very similar, if not virtually the same, there would be very little lateral half shaft movement. Obvious now that I think about it.
Keeping the stock half shafts is a nice thing for those who want to maintain originality as much as possible.
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I went with the twin link because too much of my life was spent changing rear axle shaft u-joints in Triumph Spitfires.
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JB,
Does your car have CV joints instead of the u-joints?
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No, still have the stock joints. They just don't have to take suspension loads anymore.
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Wouldn't that also reduce the loads on the differential bearings?
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The differential carrier bearings are huge and have no trouble taking the suspension loads.
The problem arises when the inner half-shaft yoke is not correctly shimmed. The yoke bottoms on the diff output shaft. Then the load first goes through the diff output shaft to the spider gears and then to diff carrier and the diff carrier bearings. The spider gears can't take the load and quickly fail.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the stock design as long as the shimming is correctly done. Shimming should be check at EVERY service interval.
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Interesting, how do you check it, jb?
Edit: I found a thread on the subject, try to understand it...