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Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Luciano1985 on Friday,February 14, 2020, 01:37:46 PM

Title: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Friday,February 14, 2020, 01:37:46 PM
My mecanic thinks he can save the stuck pistons
So far 2 are free and 2 are stuck in the liners
The 2 that are still stuck have there con rods stuck in them,not moving left or right
While they are soaking I'm looking for liners,rings and rod bearings
My questtions are:
Would the standard liners fit ?the 76/82 Renault
Would I need standard rings? or would I need them modified,I saw there thicker ones /+10,+20 etc
The old ones are actually in good condition according to the mechanic(rod bearings)
I'm attaching a picture of the two lose pistons
PS:I know nothing of mechanics and I'm sorry if some of my questtions are stupid
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,February 14, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
They would need to be liners that take a gasket rather than the later o-ring seal, unless you machine the block to suit.

You want standard rings.

Bearings are relatively cheap, fit new ones.

My advice would be to do nothing until you know exactly what you need.  Be patient and wait until your mechanic has completed disassembly and evaluation of the engine and its parts.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Friday,February 14, 2020, 02:56:29 PM
Thank you very much
I had a chance of buying a full set of pistons (Renault flat)Liners and rings (NOS) for a very good price!
I was thinking to buy them and just use the liners
The price of the set are the same as 4 separate liners with other shops so I tought it would of been worth buying
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,February 14, 2020, 04:17:22 PM
Well, maybe.  piston/liner sets come in a variety of diameters for different displacements.

80mm stroke

1470 - 76mm bore

84mm stroke

1565 - 77mm bore
1596 - 77.8mm bore
1605 - 78mm bore
1647 - 79mm bore

So, only liners from a 1470 will match your pistons.

Just wait until you know exactly what you need!
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,February 14, 2020, 05:05:56 PM
In my opinion those connecting rods have too much surface rust to consider using. I would not trust them. Find new ones. In the big scheme of things parts are cheap compared to labor.......especially if you have to rebuild again in case of used parts failure.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Saturday,February 15, 2020, 02:36:39 AM
On the Renault 16 shop the liners for the Renault 16 1150
Are advertised as a perfect fit for Lotus Europa 1469 cc
https://www.renault16shop.com/liner
When i add them in my cart they say:
Cylinder liner R16 1647cc, 76 mm and 82,5 mm.
So the liners for the Renault 1647 are advertised as the same for the Europa 1469cc

Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,February 15, 2020, 06:56:28 AM
1647 liners are not 76mm, nor do they have a 82.5mm base.  Just ping them and ask for clarification.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Saturday,February 15, 2020, 07:22:25 AM
I did
Any idea about the pin rings?
Are they the same with the Renault ones?
Im Heading if the pistons are difrent from the Renault so are the rings
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,February 15, 2020, 07:57:13 AM
It would not surprise me if Renault A-series engines used the same piston ring specs in the 1470 engines.  The specs are in the manual.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Monday,February 17, 2020, 09:07:42 AM
3 of the pistons and rods are now free
One left
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 17, 2020, 09:13:14 AM
Yippee!!  :beerchug:

Judging by what I can see of the bearing, it looks like a very lightly used motor!
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Monday,February 17, 2020, 09:28:12 AM
36.000 km
Was bought new in 1970 and stored in 1976
Until i bought it
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Tuesday,February 18, 2020, 06:37:41 AM
Ive ordered a set of new liners from Renault16 shop
Today i was informed that in stead of 76mm and 82.5 mm base they sent me 77mm and 82.5 (TL ones)
The owner of thr shop told me i can still use them in my enginewith no modifications
Is that true or should i just send them back when they arrive and have them send the correct ones?
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,February 18, 2020, 10:06:09 AM
:-)

No, you can't fit 76mm pistons into a 77mm bore.  Well, I guess you can but they will rattle themselves to death in very short order.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,February 18, 2020, 10:07:36 AM
If he can't supply them, I have a set here.  Shipping heavy, bulky items from Canada is VERY expensive though.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Rainer on Tuesday,February 18, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Did a quick search,


These seem to have a 82mm base

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Renault-R16-8-CV-Kolben-Buchsen-76-MM-unten-82-mm-Renault-16-Pistons/112754654273?hash=item1a40b37c41:g:zuEAAOSwMfhaW0wd

and thesem listed with 82,5mm base
The liner dimesions are in the description, so you can compare these to your originals

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Renault-16-R16-8cv-1469cc-1968-1972-pistons-liners-rings-set-76mm-chemises-/264461419178

Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Tuesday,February 18, 2020, 01:28:55 PM
Those are low compression Renault Pistons
I had thrm on my ebayy watch list
My original high compression pistons are saved , i jusst ned pistons rings now
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Thursday,February 20, 2020, 05:25:08 AM
The seller informed me he has shipped the rifht linera today
Now im down to rings
Im not sure if its the right way to messure them and i want to make sure i order the right ones
The seller suggested these are a good fit  can anybody confirm?
https://www.renault16shop.com/0855704800,-0607777500,-7700502511
He is telling me messures are
1,75 x 3,3
2,0 x 3,4
4x 3,5
But mines has a ridged ring these look difrennt
Also a questtion about bearings
Mechanic is telling me there are 2 sets road and main bearings and i should change both
Im not exacly sure about the righ ones for my engine
Sellet from renault shop is suggesting these are the corect ones for the roads but after sending me the rong liners i want to double check:
https://www.renault16shop.com/7701348413,0996105000,0996049000
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,February 20, 2020, 12:55:29 PM
If you look in the manual, you will find the ring specs listed:

http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2work/tech/index.htm

Compression rings have a 2mm nominal width.  Oil control, 4mm.

However, I still haven't seen a clear photo of the piston tops.  Is there a raised section?  Or just flat?

Once you get the new rings, check the clearance in the ring groove and the end gap in the liners.  Worn ring grooves can be repaired.

Did you clean and measure your crank?  If you need standard bearings then the ones you list are correct.

With the engine apart, definitely replace the main and rod bearings.  The ones you ahem are very, very old.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Thursday,February 20, 2020, 01:05:28 PM
Thank you very much
Ive tried the manual but is like a cifer for me as i know nothing of mechanics ,and my mechanic does not understand english!
Yes they are the original high compression raised pistons!
So i can order the rod bearings and rings from the links above?
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,February 20, 2020, 03:22:56 PM
In the manual it specifies the upper rings as 2mm wide.  The new rings are 1.75mm.  The ring you measured is 1.75mm.  I would buy the rings but you need to check clearances CAREFULLY when they arrive.

The original pistons have been known to crack.  Check them carefully.
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: Luciano1985 on Friday,February 21, 2020, 12:35:51 AM
Thank you very much
Im about to pay my invoice
However im not sure about the main bearings beeing corect
Can anybody advise on the right size of the main bearing?
Title: Re: 1470cc s2 piston rings,liners,Rod bearings
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,February 21, 2020, 06:05:50 AM
The 1470, 1565, 1596, 1605 and 1647 engines all take the same crank and rod bearings.  The bearings come in different sizes.  Standard for a stock cranks and 0.25mm under is available for a reground crank.  The aftermarket can supply even larger undersizes but the crank needs to be nitrated for anything under 0.25mm.