Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Off Topic Subjects => Topic started by: literarymadness on Monday,November 18, 2019, 03:56:22 PM
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I saw the film Thursday night and really enjoyed it. Could have done without the CGI but at least it wasn't over abused. Iacocca Shows the Deuce some slides of what modern automotive style was really about and the first slide was a Lotus Elite and the second slide was a Ferrari 250 GT. Curious was anybody else on the forum thought of the movie.
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I haven't seen it yet but I have to say that the smooth faced pretty-boy from Massachusetts Matt Damon, physically at least, would seem a strange choice for the grizzled, leather-faced Texan Carroll Shelby!
I do intend to see it in spite of the fresh-faced Damon.
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Having crewed on SCCA races for 40 years, enjoyed the movie but they needed some ‘crew’ input to get the details correct. Going down the Mulsanne straight, you have the throttle wide open - not backing off and look at the car next to you, then put your foot back into it. Also, I don’t believe they changed out the whole front suspension when the brakes failed - rotor and pads yes, but not A- arms. Brake rotors will glow red under hard braking, but the red goes away when you release the brakes - they don’t continue glowing all the time. The LeMans movie with Steve McQueen was much more authentic. My two cents worth.
Tom - 74 TCS - 4605R
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McQueen's Le Mans was actually recorded during the race and I think I remember something like the camera car came in something like 9th in the race.
Hollywood can be counted on taking a great true story and making mediocre fiction. As I said, I haven't seen it so I am in no way saying that's what happened in this movie. I saw Rush in the theater and remember liking it a lot. When I saw again at home, I still liked it but not nearly as much as I thought I would. I think it will last longer than Grand Prix but as good as Rush is, the real story was still better.
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In the 1966 movie "Grand Prix," Graham Hill, Richie Ginther, and Phil Hill portrayed fictional drivers in the film. And the list of mostly uncredited stunt drivers drivers for the film included Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Bob Bondurant, and Lorenzo Bandini. Talk about realistic driving scenes. No CGI back then. Both Bandini and Bondurant's characters are portrayed in "Ford vs. Ferrari."
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Ok, now that you've mentioned Bob Bondurant, I have to tell my Bondurant/Europa story!
My car was originally metallic green and after sitting out in the New Orleans weather for a year anow and a half, the paint looked horrible! But that's one reason I got a pretty good deal on it. Almost immediately after I bought it, I went on a road trip with a college buddy and one stop was going to be the Sonoma Valley to take Bondurant's racing school.
At the opening of the first class, Bob welcomed us to the school. Then he asked who had the Lotus Europa. I said I did and he said, "Let's go take a look." As we walked to my car, I tried, and I'm sure I failed, to make reasonable small talk with a famous race driver. When we got about ten feet away, Bob says, "Looks nice" and then turns around and goes back into the building!
Oh, well... :P
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Ah! But if he could see your car today. :pirate:
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Yes! It looks much nicer now! ;) Bob, if you're reading this, let me know when I can show it to you! :D
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When I first heard Matt Damon would be playing Shelby, I though "Great choice". I think I may be the only one who did. Nonetheless, I still think it's a god fit.
As for the movie itself, I have not seen it. I'm not in a hurry to do so either. Hollywood has frustrated and irritated me over the years with their poor efforts on car based movies. Everything is dumbed down, embellished, and glorified, seemingly in an effort to make the story watchable. This is a shame because the stories can stand on their own without hollywoodification. It has come to the point where the more personal interest I have in a story, the less likely I am to watch a Hollywood movie of it. It will only irritate me.
Like most of us on this forum, I seriously dig this era of motorsport, and especially the Ford/Ferrari saga. General curiosity will compel me to watch it someday, but it won't happen for years.
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Bainford: Here is a link concerning the accuracy of the film. Seems as if a lot of the details were correct.
https://slate.com/culture/2019/11/ford-v-ferrari-fact-vs-fiction-le-mans-ken-miles.html
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I invited my wife to come with me to see the film and she said yes. Must be because of the actors, not the content.....
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Both my wife and I saw the movie yesterday afternoon.
Technically perfect? --- No, but enjoyable none the less.
I was impressed with Matt Damon's portrayal of Shelby, although certain events may have been embellished or altered for the movie.
I also liked Christian Bale's performance as Ken Miles.
Two thumbs up, here!
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I just finished watching The 24 Hour War directed by Adam Carolla on Netflix. It's very good! It's a documentary that starts by comparing Ford and Ferrari from their beginnings. There are stories told by people in almost every aspect of the battle from mechanics to drivers to family members. There is a lot of backstory that is told. So much that Carroll Shelby is almost a secondary character in the drama. Since I haven't seen Ford vs Ferrari yet, I can't compare them but if you have any interest in the Ford v Ferrari battle or that era of endurance racing, I'm certain you'll enjoy it.
My only complaint is that when they discuss the 1965 Sebring race, they don't mention that Chaparral won. >:( But I really liked it overall!
I should add that Bob Bondurant was one of the drivers who told some of the stories. Unfortunately, he didn't mention meeting me or seeing my green Europa! :FUNNY:
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I was going to rock up and see the film in my GT40, but the cinema is in a dodgy neighbourhood, and the car has no door locks.
Plus you have to park about 4ft away from any other car or you cannot open the doors to get out.
I will have to go in my ordinary Golf R32.
I plan to see in iMax in the next few days.
Alex in Norfolk.
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Alex, so along with your stable of Europa restoration projects, you have a real (or replica) GT-40?? How very cool! Can you tell us a bit about it?
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Alex, so along with your stable of Europa restoration projects, you have a real (or replica) GT-40?? How very cool! Can you tell us a bit about it?
A continuation Superformance GT40 made in South Africa.
Roush 459 bhp 5.6 litre V8.
Gulf colours, sky blue and marigold.
GT40P2194 chassis number.
Difficult to drive in traffic.
Difficult to drive fast on undulating roads, your cannot see over brows, and they cannot see you coming.
Difficult to get away at T junctions unless you are at 90' to the road, as rear side vision is impossible.
No creature comforts at all, bare inside, no spare tyre, no radio, no opening windows, no door locks, take the steering wheel off to get out.
Goes like a bat out of hell, weighs about a ton, and sounds gorgeous, so I am told.
295/70/15 rear tyres, Wilwood brakes, Quaife 5 speed gearbox/transaxle with Porsche internals.
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It sounds like a beast! I wouldn't be able to stand the non-opening windows because it gets way to hot here for that!
The GT-40 Mk II is a great looking car. I like the Mk IV even better but if I would really want a replica of a Chaparral 2F (without the wing).
My guess is that having the GT-40 is a dream. Congratulations for realizing it! :beerchug:
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4129R: :beerchug: Hats off to you my friend! Would love to see a photo.
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As requested:-
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Nice!
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Oh yeah! Nice indeed.
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Love the orange rims. Perfection!
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I was surfing on Netflix this afternoon and found that Adam Carolla also did a documentary on Carroll Shelby. He was a lot more interesting than I expected. Since a fair amount of his story is tied up in Ford's battles at Le Mans, there is a bit of film "borrowed" from The 24 Hour War but there is a lot of other material too. As in The 24 Hour War, there are lots of comments from members of his team, drivers, members of the Ford family, etc. Bob Bondurant also had some things to say. [unfortunately, he didn't take the opportunity to comment on his contribution to my racing career but thankfully, he also didn't mention the shape my car was in when I showed it to him!]
Another well done documentary. I think if you have any interest in racing in that era (I was a Chevy guy then and had no use for Fords) I think you'll enjoy it.
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I was at the Simeone Museum today with a good friend. They had an example of the cars featured in the film to look at and then they took them outside to run them for “Demo Day”. Fred Simeone gave a nice talk on the history of Ford and Ferrari’s racing programs. Hearing them being driven was very cool. Great way to prep for watching the movie tonight!
I shot some video of them running outside. Will edit and post when I have time.
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Thanks Certified! You reminded me that I went to Amelia Island when one of the featured marques was Ford GT. I talked to the guy who owned the yellow #2. I was surprised when he told me that the engine was basically stock. With mufflers, he even drove it on the street. In fact, he let his son go to the prom with his girlfriend in it!
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Went to the movie last night with my wife. The most important aspect of the film is that she liked the story line and found the film interesting. Her comment afterwards as we drove home was “I’m glad you don’t race anymore”. (I totaled an Exige S in the rain at the track. Hit the Armco spinning backwards at speed after I “found” an oil puddle from another car in a corner. Took a month for my black and blue spots to disappear from the five point Harness and HANS device due to impact).
I thought it was well done with a nice balance of how a lot of guys get into racing but can’t afford it and the big brand companies who throw money at their racing programs with abandonment. The internal politics of Ken Miles driving the GT40 at LeMans was new to me. They really toned down Carroll Shelby’s persona. Remember, this guy had six wives.....
The actual racing footage was interesting. The dramatic wheel to wheel shots were a bit over the top, especially the side glances of the drivers looking at each other at 200 MPH. I don’t think so.....
I wish they would have gotten a bit more technical on the car development, but it was enough to understand engine and suspension improvements and the need to last 24 hours. I’m guessing the constant shots of Ken wrenching under the car succeeded in painting the picture.
The character development of Enzo was a tribute to him. Honorable and focused.
My biggest grin of the entire film was when Carroll takes Henry Ford II for a “test drive”. Brought back memories of when I would take a first timer on the track to show them “the line”. I always made sure they went to the bathroom first. Most people have no idea of the rate of speed or the ability to corner at high speed. Especially when your power sliding through a corner. Or just tapping the brakes before a hard turn to set up the balance of the car while everyone else was slowing down significantly. Yup, you get a lot of respect after one of those drives.
I could not imagine driving flat out four hours at a time. I’ve been to Petite LeMans twice and had a very interesting conversation with a driver for BMW (he will go un-named) during his rest between his seat time. I asked him what it was like to drive at top speed at night when you can’t see anything. He told me for the first hour he is scared out of his wits. Has to force himself to keep the throttle to the floor. Completely overwhelming when your on the track and can’t see anyone in front of you as the headlights aren’t bright enough to see far enough down the road at the speed your traveling. When your following someone’s tail lights it easier, but you get sucked into following them and not making your own decisions. Passing is an out of body experience at night and totally terrifying.
All in all the movie was well done. I’m glad I got to see the GT40 and Ferrari in person earlier in the day. It added a different dimension to watching the film.
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Alex, so along with your stable of Europa restoration projects, you have a real (or replica) GT-40?? How very cool! Can you tell us a bit about it?
A continuation Superformance GT40 made in South Africa.
Roush 459 bhp 5.6 litre V8.
Gulf colours, sky blue and marigold.
GT40P2194 chassis number.
Difficult to drive in traffic.
Difficult to drive fast on undulating roads, your cannot see over brows, and they cannot see you coming.
Difficult to get away at T junctions unless you are at 90' to the road, as rear side vision is impossible.
No creature comforts at all, bare inside, no spare tyre, no radio, no opening windows, no door locks, take the steering wheel off to get out.
Goes like a bat out of hell, weighs about a ton, and sounds gorgeous, so I am told.
295/70/15 rear tyres, Wilwood brakes, Quaife 5 speed gearbox/transaxle with Porsche internals.
Very cool car Alex. No-one says it has to be practical. Do you track it? I’m sure big grin every time you get into it and start it up.
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Looking forward to seeing "Ford vs. Ferrari", hopefully in the next week. I watched 'The 24 Hour War' last night. What a wonderful movie and the archive footage was incredible.
Another GT40 photo, the Sebring 12 Hour winning MKIV driven by Bruce McLaren and Mario Andretti.
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They really toned down Carroll Shelby’s persona. Remember, this guy had six wives.....
It certainly sounds like they did tone down his persona! In the Netflix movie about Shelby I mentioned earlier, several people claimed that nobody really knew how many times he had been married. One story that was told was that he was married to a woman by a friend who was the justice of the peace. Only he wasn't really a justice of the peace! And that woman actually did divorce him!
I neglected to mention the name of the Shelby movie. It was Shelby American. It should be a great addendum to both or either The 24 Hour War and Ford vs Ferrari.
Thanks, Certified, for the description of night driving. It wouldn't have been a surprise to me that it would be a couple orders of magnitude more difficult than day time driving, but it seems I underestimated it. It sounds way beyond hair-raising! Keep in mind that the Mulsanne Straight was, at the time of the movie, 3.7 miles long and Ford GT40 MkIVs and Ferrari P4s were racing on the same track at the same time as Austin Healey Sprites and consider determining the difference between Sprite tail lights and Ferrari tail lights in the middle of the night at 200 mph!
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BDA: Thanks for mentioning "Shelby American." I watched it last night and really enjoyed it. Wow! And I thought I was married and divorced a lot (a dismal 3 LOL). I guess being a race car giant trumps being a rock star. :trophy:
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As requested:-
That my friend is my dream garage. I love the GT40 in Gulf livery. One day, not sure if they let the Superformance continuation series into Canada, the owner had a huge legal battle with Canadian safety authorities back in the day.
Ross
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I left the cinema with a mixture of emotions:-
Pride that I can share in the ownership of a piece of motorsport history.
Sadness about what happened to Ken Miles
Anger that a big corporation can treat someone like that.
Happiness that the GT40 won so convincingly.
Sadness that the real winner did not get his just reward.
Disappointment that my red line is 6500 and I only have 5.6 litres and my car is geared to only 176mph
I thought that Ken, Carroll and Molly were played very well.
Good entertainment and kept me interested for the whole 2h30m.
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From what I understand Ken Miles was finished second purely by accident and not from anything nefarious. Did the movie suggest otherwise? I agree that it was very sad that he didn't get credit for the win as he really was the winner. It was even sadder that he died in the J-Car.
We're going to see it this evening. I'll post my impressions.
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From what I understand Ken Miles was finished second purely by accident and not from anything nefarious. Did the movie suggest otherwise?
No, but the French had a habit of interpreting rules to deny Englishment victory in motorsports events.
"The British cars were disqualified because they used non-dipping single filament quartz iodine bulbs in their headlamps, in place of the standard double filament dipping glass bulbs, which are fitted to the series production version of each model sold to the public."
That was Monte Carlo Rally, 1966, same year as Le Mans, also the same year we won the World Cup for soccer.
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Just got back from the movie. It was entertaining. There was a lot of things that I wish were included but I really prefer documentaries about things like this. For example, the Ford J-car that Miles was killed in did not look at all like a GT40 like in the movie. It would be difficult to show all the contributions of fabrication and design made by Phil Remington in a dramatic movie. The characters were pretty well done and I was surprised at how well I though Damon did at portraying Shelby. The racing scenes were pure Hollywood and were a really negative aspect of the movie to me. I mean, singing while racing; looking over at the driver in the next car; and when you REALLY need to pass somebody, just push on the gas pedal more; etc. I thought the corporate politics and the practitioners thereof were really the bad guys. I don't know the truth of that. I don't remember that in The 24 Hour War or Shelby American but on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me.
Beyond that, I largely agree with 4129R's assessment.
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Going to see the movie again today with my two sons. Here is the video I shot at the Simeone Museum of some of the cars running during demo day. Sorry for the shaky camera, I was using my small Sony RX100 VI still camera for photos and switched to video mode when the cars were running.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYas7Uh7Jvs
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Nice video, Certified (regardless of any camera shaking)! Beautiful cars!
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If you haven’t seen this interview you might find it interesting. At 55 minutes he starts talking about the GT40 development program (Carroll repeats himself a lot, but it’s still an interesting insight).
Carroll Shelby - The Lost Interview
https://youtu.be/Rzq4DeTjZ1A
And then a Ford produced film on “Carroll Shelby Goes Racing”
https://youtu.be/Ynl2dJSpEYo
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Just to keep everyone fully engaged......
Ford GT: The Return to Le Mans (Full Documentary) | Ford
https://youtu.be/vYlEI46g2vU
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My son knows someone who worked on the movie set in Savannah. Check out the Blue Screen shots compared to the actual shot shown in the movie.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B5fWMmWnrXc/?igshid=1eui8am32sjfl
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Very interesting! I would think it would be hard enough pretending you're someone you're not with a complete set but to have a lot of the set added after the scene is cut... That seems even more difficult!
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Another interesting short video about the GT40 that Ken Miles drove at LeMans. Did not know the teams had to take the spare tire out during pit stops!
https://youtu.be/nZgXDSJjY8g
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The car also had to have luggage capacity for an FIA suitcase (suitcase of specific dimensions dictated by the FIA). I'm not sure where the GT would have been able to stow one though.
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The car also had to have luggage capacity for an FIA suitcase (suitcase of specific dimensions dictated by the FIA). I'm not sure where the GT would have been able to stow one though.
They extended the rear clam backwards to fit the regulation box by the rear left wheel on MkIIs.
No room in my MkI even for my spare Europa ashtray !
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Yes! I remember the boxes in the rear and wondered what they were for. There were some interesting methods of satisfying that rule. The Chaparral 2D just had a box attached to the back of the car - not very pretty and probably not great for aero. The Chaparral 2F had compartments under the front headlights and in front of the front wheels. I thought that was pretty clever.