Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: TurboFource on Thursday,October 03, 2019, 04:29:07 PM
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What are the pros and cons? As I prefer the looks of an early Europa, can the Renault engine be built to run as well as a Twin cam? What are parts availability etc for each?
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The Renault engine is much more durable. I know a guy who lives by me that has had an S1a since the early '70s and he has put over 300,000 miles on it. Of course, he is a british car mechanic and probably rebuilt it numerous times. The Renault engines can be built to twin cam levels of horsepower. The S1 and S2s are a little bit more stable at speed. Colin Chapman fought cutting down the sails for the new Twin Cam shape because those sails are meant to be aerodynamic stabilizers. An S2 in most cases will be significantly lighter than a Twin Cam or a Special (though my TCS is close to S2 weight now and I plan on taking another 40 lbs off). Early S2s have the look of an S1 but less of the headaches). Type 54 Fed spec models have the lowered front end and suspension of the ROW S2s but have the larger Renault motor. But that being said, the Twin Cam motor has a true and long racing heritage and sounds exquisite. It is a work of art and an amazing automotive design. One of the all time great 4 cyl motors.
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I have the S2 Renault. I always liked the larger sails. makes it look like an El Camino.
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I have the S2 Renault. I always liked the larger sails. makes it look like an El Camino.
I've always thought the TCs looked more like an El Camino! If you look at it from the side, it looks like a small pickup truck! :D
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Can you get similar outputs from a Renault engine as a TC?
Yes and no.
Certainly not with the stock Renault wedge head engine. You can get that up to 140 hp or so but it becomes close to a full race engine and not all tractable in stop and go traffic. I would say 100-ish hp is about all you can get from a wedge and still have a nice street-able engine.
Fit a Renault crossflow engine and it's another matter entirely. You can pretty much match TC hp outputs, get similar performing engines and have similar bills for parts and machining. The Renault engine is quite a bit lighter and somewhat torquier with it's slightly longer stroke. The TC's Achilles heel is their short valve guides. Rev them high and hard and they wear fairly quickly, say 20K or less till the engine gets smokey. With the Renault engines, the cams and followers wear at very high revs.
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BDA I'm with you on that one. S1 and S2: breadvan! TC and TCS: El Camino. I even had someone ask me one time, "Is that supposed to be a tiny truck?" Well what do you expect from the automotively challenged ;)
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I would love to find an early S2 and I intend to drive it a lot so the Renault motor is probably the way to go. I currently have a small car that was rated at 68 hp when it was new 300,000 miles ago! It is a Festiva . So a car that is even lighter than it is with more power sounds perfectly adequately!
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Another consideration is creature comfort. I'm 6'2" (188 cm) and 220 lbs (100 kg) and the TCS fits like a snug glove. I understand the S1 ans S2 are somewhat smaller inside. Not sure I would fit.
t
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I am 5'8" and 155lbs with a size 8 shoe, I think I will fit in all of them :)
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I am 5'8" and 155lbs with a size 8 shoe, I think I will fit in all of them :)
Perfect Colin Chapman dimensions, you will be very comfortable in any model.
t
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I think height has a big thing to do with the fit of the Europa. I am 5'11" but on the girthy side of 270lbs. I am perfectly comfortable in the Twin cam, the S2 is tighter but by the time that one is driving again I will have to go on a weight savings plan. I fit fine in the Elan+2 as well.
Ross
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Another consideration is creature comfort. I'm 6'2" (188 cm) and 220 lbs (100 kg) and the TCS fits like a snug glove. I understand the S1 ans S2 are somewhat smaller inside. Not sure I would fit.
t
Same height as me, Surf and in the S2, I only just fit.
With a helmet on, I have to scrunch down.
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It's more than a matter of height. It depends on where you are "tall". Long back, short legs and you will bang your head sooner than if you are long legged with a short back.
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It's more than a matter of height. It depends on where you are "tall". Long back, short legs and you will bang your head sooner than if you are long legged with a short back.
I have a 34 inch inseam when I buy pants, which I think makes me "backy" as opposed to "leggy". A helmet is out of the question, which frustrates my autocross and track day ambitions.
t
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I am just plain short.
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How rare/expensive is putting a crossflow head on a Renault motor?
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I’m in the process of building a crossflow and a wedge . There are differences, new cam/ fussy , tappets ,timing chain assembly with gears. After you find the new cam you send it out for a regrind .
Then headers , intake manifold , carbs.
It’s also my first time building these motors. I had the same questions and The real pros here answered and are guiding me . Read 0453 reassembly / garage ,later pages.
Dakazman
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Different pistons, cam, distributor (longer shaft), and, obviously, head, manifolds and valve gear.
Best to find a complete engine. Preferably earlier as they had more of the “good” stuff.
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I've heard of crossflow, hemi, and wedge Renault engines. I'm curious, but probably none of this will apply to me as I have a Twin Cam and by the time I get the thing all fixed-up I may be old and grey.
My question is, what came with the Europas? Are some of these engines from other cars but will fit a Europa, or did they come stock with different iterations or in different years / eras? And, like, which one when? Are the blocks all the same, different, or "all but..."?
Vince
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The S1/2 came stock with first a 1470 wedge head and then a 1565 wedge. The crossflows were not available to Lotus but they could easily be found from wrecks or as crate engines. Fitting a crossflow is a very common mod. The crossflow was used in some models of the R8, R12, R16, R15, R17, R18, Fuego, Alpine A110/310 and more. Crossflows were available in mild 80 hp (807-10) all the way up to 130-ish (807G) and, in racing crate engines, 160 hp. The highest output I have heard of is 220-ish but, of course, a full race tune.
The blocks are all similar but not the same. Spigot size changed, liners went from gasket to o-ring bottom seals, early blocks have different mount holes than later blocks (though later blocks can be adapted).
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Vince,
I'm like you with a TC so it's mostly academic interest on the engines with a bit more "just in case" interest on the gearboxes. This page has a good reference to what's what and will probably tell you more than you'll ever need to know !
http://www.syer.net/donor_cars.htm (http://www.syer.net/donor_cars.htm)
Brian
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Thank you both for the good information.
-V