Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: BobW on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 01:56:51 PM
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The dealer had a row of Europas for me to choose from when I went to pick mine up in early 1971. They were different colours, some had alloy wheels, etc. One had a fabric sunroof. Even at the time, when I drove a Saab with this option, a sunroof in a Europa seemed a poor idea to me, and I've never seen another. A search through the registry section of lotus-europa.com does not find the word 'sunroof'. Has anyone else seen a Europa with a sunroof? Do you think the factory did this? or was it the dealer?
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I don’t think a sunroof was ever a factory option. From what I have read, the roof is structural and should not be cut into. I have also read that allowing air to flow thru the roof changes the way air pressure works in the front bonnet area and the rear engine area.
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I don't know about structural but there were cartoons from back in the day of a sunroof in a Europa acting like a vacuum cleaner sucking crap into the cabin.
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I think I remember seeing a picture of a Europa with a cloth sunroof. If I have, it was probably only one picture. I don't think they was ever a factory sunroof option so if there really was one, I would think it was a dealer option. Lotus by Claudius used to sell a kit to make a sunroof out of the roof and a fiberglass panel with drains and clamps they supplied. I bought one but I realized that it would reduce headroom so that wasn't going to work for me. Also, there was no way to stow it in the car so you had to leave it behind and hope it didn't rain while you were out. I sold it many years ago. I may have seen a car that installed one but I'm not sure.
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My tcs has a sunroof. It had one when I bought it in 1986. It was a small manual rear tilt up type. I replaced it during my recent restoration with an electric sunroof that slides back and up to the outside rear.
It would have been a fair amount of work to fill in the hole in he roof and get the contours correct.
I do not see any structural issues with the sunroof.
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Very interesting, Pfreen! An electric sunroof! I'd love to see a picture of it opened.
The Lotus by Claudius kit was very simple. They gave you a template and you cut a hole in the roof. Then you glassed the piece you cut ot onto the panel with the drains and clamps. Presumably because you're using the piece from the roof, the contours match up. But then I don't know for sure because I didn't try it.
BTW, you have a beautiful car!
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Rightly or wrongly, I made a removable panel sunroof way back in the mists of time (1979?).
I liked the sunroof idea because summers are hot here. I wanted something more discreet and “factory” looking. The fabric option always seemed rather too large to me.
The panel was sized so that it would slide into two ally felt lined channels which are affixed to the forward end of the front bonnet. It fits high up, out of the way, and more or less between the bonnet hinge bolts. It’s retained in the stowed position by a simple elastic strap. The elastic strap idea could be improved, but it was a quick method at the time.
In practice, it works well with minimal downsides.
I was quite surprised to find practically no increase in wind noise or buffeting of any sort.
In that sense, it’s a bit like when you wind down the side windows at speed. You can hear the outside world, of course, but there’s nothing remotely like the wind roar you’d experience in any “normal” car.
With no data on the subject, I’d expected to possibly need a deflector on the leading edge as seen on many cars, but, luckily, that wasn’t the case.
Yes, I’d also heard that a sunroof would suck in all sorts of rubbish, but that didn’t happen with mine. But you can feel the way the air moves anyway and in fact, the air seems to move in the opposite direction. I can attest to that because the one time I forgot to latch the sunroof, it blew off and landed on the side of the road behind me. Oooops . . .
Other stuff:
You can’t close a removable panel on the move if it starts to rain.
My panel was insufficiently sealed against water leaks - my fault.
Mine did intrude into the much needed headroom a titch but a slightly smaller one would be OK, I reckon. Remember that I sized mine to be stored under the bonnet and didn’t sufficiently take head room into account.
I glassed in a 10mm foam sheet to stiffen the panel. No structural issues in the roof were noted.
So, I’m of two minds. Perhaps I should just glass the sunroof back in and restore it to stock or put the effort into making it properly waterproof. Dunno.
I’ll second that, BDA.
I'd like to see a picture of Pfreen’s sunroof opened, too. It seems to be a very neat job. How much does it intrude into headroom?
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Attached are photos of my sunroof. It is a Webasto Hollandia 300m. It dos not leak and it automatically closes when you turn off the ignition. The disadvantages are that it reduces headroom by 1” at the frame, it is noisy in the car from the exhaust, (not wind noise), and it can let in exhaust smell, especially after giving the car an Italian tuneup.
I have air conditioning so I don’t use it much in Florida, but maybe on the trek to Log 39 where I hope it is cooler than 93 deg out.
I think it looks nice as a contrast to the yellow.
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Boy, that's a really nice installation! That and A/C too! Kind of brings the car to the twenty first century! Well done!
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Impressive installation! Can’t wait to see your car in the flesh.
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Thanks, Pfreen,
That really is an quality installation.
Thinking about it, it’s surprising any aftermarket company would cater to such an uncommon vehicle as a Europa. The potential market must have been minuscule. I’d have thought the set up costs for the glass alone would have killed the idea.
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It is not specifically for a Europa. It’s just a small generic sunroof. The radius of curvature just happens to be very close to a Europa roof.
It cost around $500. I looked up the model and it is a Webasto Hollandia 321M. It is 14.6”x31.6”.
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What a nice installation Pfreen, with so much more to offer than a fabric roof. It is interesting to hear that there have been no structural issues. I'd begrudge the missing inch of headroom but I'm taller than most.
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WOW, now that's a 21st century installation. I've seen sun roofs put in Europa's over the years and have looked the other way, having lost total interest in it, thinking it killed the value and integrity. all very typical products of the 70's and 80's....basic, hinged top....
but this is very clean, neat, tidy and has options! SUPER!
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Wow! Pfreen's sunroof installation looks slick! I could never give up that inch of headroom though.
BDA mentioned "Sunroof by Claudius" and that triggered something I remember seeing in a note in the lotus Registry:
"...Does anyone remember Claudius, the
Europa sunroof guy? For the last 5 years I've been maintaining a '73
TCS that he used as his prototype for his sunroof install. This is a
strange car, the serial number is #2619, I think I have to verify
this, but it has a 336 4 spd./TC engine w/stromberg head and a plaque
on the drvrs door stating 'year of MFG does not denote year of
title'. The woman who owns this car bought it new in New Jersey
in '73 and drove it out to Calif., amazing, and Claudius kept the car
for 2 years while he developed his sunroof pkg. "
t
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If you lean to the right a little, you get more headroom than stock, especially with it open. I am 6’-2” and I just bought a helmet to autocross at Log 39. I fit, but removed the seat cushion under my behind which gabe me an additional 1 inch. We’ll see how it goes.
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Mine didn't have a sunroof, but a dealer installed vinyl roof...
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!!!!
Any photos you could share?
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N. the PO took it off at some point. There are still the holes visible where they attached the edge chrome trim. The roof is now painted white (see my avatar). I think about going back to the vinyl top in white when I restore the car. Such a 70s thing to do! ;D
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I installed a glass sunroof in my TCS back around 1975.
It was purchased from Tomco (Washington state) and had 3 positions: closed, tilt (rear up), or removed. ...I made a storage case for it, and it fit in the luggage tray, so it was always with the car if removed.
There was no fiberglass work needed (it clamped in), and never leaked.
It made a HUGE difference in cockpit ventilation during the summer.
I did keep the panel I cut out in case it was ever returned to original.