Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: literarymadness on Wednesday,August 07, 2019, 09:57:01 PM
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What have you guys done to lighten your Europa? I have done a lot but I am sure there is more I can do. I am open to suggestions. In the rear, I have removed the emissions (cross pipes and evap tank). Went from a 31 lbs battery to a 4 1/2 lbs one. Cast iron manifold to a mild steel one and stainless steel muffler (guessing saved 10 lbs). Gear reduction starter (saved 2-3 lbs). Aluminum flywheel (saved 8 lbs). Removing the brake servos would save 25 lbs but I haven't done it yet. Triple core aluminum radiator ( guessing saved about 18 lbs). I am going to go to a weigh station in the next few weeks to see where I am at.
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Spare wheel, luggage tray, heater, interior fan, carpets, the list is long.
The racing versions apparently had special thin fibreglass shells too.
You could remove both window motors too, and have a manual opening system.
It all depends how extreme you want to go, and why.
Single fuel tank, less fuel in the tank, driver to lose weight, no passenger, etc, etc.
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If you just want to go a bit faster - there must be easier ways - such as mixing methanol to the fuel??
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A Federal spec Twink is about 1650 lbs, a hundred more than the domestic or ROW version. My intention is just to get it closer to or better than the non-Fed version by eliminating what I don't need. I have kept the spare tire because that is more of safety feature. Removing the heater seems like good idea because living in South Florida, you don't really need one. I think I could live without the brake servos if the car's weight was closer to that of an S2. I am running about 110 hp at the rear wheels so that combined with knocking off a hundred lbs makes my TCS feel significantly improved but still maintaining the spirit of the original car. I have also tried to dial in my handling as well. I think 4129r suggestion of reducing driver's weight is the cheapest solution. I would also be saving quite a few lbs in addition to a few laughs from spectators watching me get in or out. LOL Maybe even less people would ask the tired question of "How do I fit in that thing?" :confused: I was also just curious to see what other forum members have done to their cars and perhaps learn a thing or two.
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Literarymadness, I have done the same as you including getting rid of the servos and all associated piping & valves.
The quest for lighter weight becomes an obsession and goes from removing things to replacing with lighter weight materials that cost a lot of $$$$.
I’ve gone that route with sail boats, road bicycles and track cars. In the end, I have found the best improvement is to enhance your skills. Making things lighter and having the same skills is a zero sum game.
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The aftermarket starter and alternator are lighter than stock. Alum vs steel alternator pulley is good for a pound or two. My PO removed the heater core, saving a few pounds but making mine a summer-only car. Emissions and servos are gone. Lighter battery, as you said. I recently added a spare tire and jack, sending me back in the other direction. I still have copper radiator and 2 steel fuel tanks. I would guess my car is about 100 to 150 lbs lighter than stock.
Tom
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I have not made an effort to save weight, but I've done some of the things you described, for example, gear reduction starter, aluminum fuel tanks and header tank, no emissions gear, stainless headers and exhaust (though steel muffler), and since my tires are bigger than stock, I don't carry a spare. On the other hand, I've kept brake boosters, I've added front vented brakes (rear discs, too, but I'm not sure they made a difference either way), the early version of Richard's twin link rear suspension is certainly heavier than the stock setup, my engine could be a bit heavier than the TC motor but my oil tank, oil cooler, plumbing is going to be heavier and I have a regular battery.
Shortly after I got my car on the road I had it weighed. It was 1660# with me in it. Figure I weighed about 200# and you get a vehicle weight a little north of 1400#. I guess you have to decide if it's worth it to get closer to 1400# for weight saving's sake.
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When I removed the front wishbones+hub+brakes+spring+damper I was surprised at how heavy the whole assembly was. The stock brake caliper is particularly heavy. So aluminium hubs, dampers and brake calipers are definitely on the shopping list.
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BDA is your engine block aluminum? Very impressive weight. Hopefully sometime in the near future I'm going to do the tail of the dragon run like I spoke about before and would love to see your your Europa in person. And so far everybody has given me some great suggestions and food for thought.
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Hey 'Madness,
No, I have a cast iron block and it was expensive enough! I shudder to think what my engine in an aluminum block would have cost me!!
I'm thinking I may have overstated the weigh cost of my engine. The BDA had is probably heavier, the carbs are probably a bit heavier too, but then there's no front timing chain box, but the intake manifolds are surely lighter as is the oil pan. It may not be significantly heavier and could even be a little lighter but I would be surprised if there was that much difference either way.
Hopefully we'll be able to meet at a LOG sometime soon! That would be great!
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I’ve seriously thought about making some sort of composite seats (without getting tangled in the intricacies of carbon fibre).
Those seats are heavy.
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I’ve seriously thought about making some sort of composite seats (without getting tangled in the intricacies of carbon fibre).
Those seats are heavy.
I had ally frames made. Not cheap.
If you get frames made, get more holes cut in them where it is not crucial, to save weight.
I have new ally tanks, not cheap.
I changed the closer plate under the rack from steel to ally.
To be fair to Colin Chapman there is not much extra weight that can easily be shed. I have many of the components lying around and the main weights are the rear drums, the front discs and calipers, the engine and gearbox. Not much can be shed from those.
In motorsport, holes get drilled everywhere to reduce weight to the homologated minimum or less, then lead added to the minimum and the lowest part in the middle to reduce body roll.
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I had ally frames made. Not cheap.
I don't suppose you weighed the ally ones against the steel ones?
I have many of the components lying around and the main weights are the rear drums, the front discs and calipers, the engine and gearbox. Not much can be shed from those.
True enough though there are ally hubs available . . and that's unsprung weight, also.
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Mr. madness asked me to weigh my spare, which I have removed from my car. I put the boosters in the front, so the spare doesn't fit any more.
Anyway, the Lotus alloy rim with a very old Goodyear 165/70-13 tire weighs 29.9 pounds.
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I had ally frames made. Not cheap.
Q: I don't suppose you weighed the ally ones against the steel ones?
A:The ally ones were made because the metal worm had eaten away the bottom 6" of the steel ones !!!
The screen leakss, water gets into the seat area and cannot drain, everything steel up to the water depth rusts away including foot pedals, clutch cable bracket, all cables, seat runners and seats. The seat runners are no longer available, the seat frames are very expensive to re-create, hence very expensive windscreen leak.
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No one has mentioned bumpers! Composite bumpers.
Composite seat trays is a good thing. Plastic windows. Titanium bolts. All at a price.
This other item I noticed during stripping the car was layers of rubberized spray in the wheelwells.
Dakazman
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No one has mentioned bumpers! Composite bumpers.
Composite seat trays is a good thing. Plastic windows. Titanium bolts. All at a price.
This other item I noticed during stripping the car was layers of rubberized spray in the wheelwells.
Dakazman
I actually took a mold of my bumper to make a carbon fiber copy. The flange did not come out right so I will be redoing it eventually.
When I removed the front wishbones+hub+brakes+spring+damper I was surprised at how heavy the whole assembly was. The stock brake caliper is particularly heavy. So aluminium hubs, dampers and brake calipers are definitely on the shopping list.
I was also amazed how heavy this stuff is. I am going to be putting mine on an aluminum diet eventually.
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I second all of the listed rust victims. I suffered the same fate for my TC, parked under a front yard Oak tree for years. Additionally I lost the highly-collectable and VERY rare Sparkamatic Wedge 5 x 8 speakers. I guess I will have to remove the Eight Track stereo tape player after all. The shame, the shame.
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I am finally replacing my non-adjustable steel shocks with aluminum Protech ones. I'll A/B the weight after I get the other ones off. Most of my Europa diet has been replacing heavier parts with lighter ones on a per need basis with the exception of the aluminum flywheel and mild steel headers. Starter went...replaced with a lighter one. Same with the radiator and so on. Pfreen replaced his cast iron front axles with stronger alloy ones. I plan on doing that next month. But I love some of the changes that some of you guys have done to go lighter and will consider some of the suggestions. By way Lotus changed its logo again.
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By way Lotus changed its logo again.
I really dislike the new logo. Bring back one of the older ones.
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Why they feel the need to screw around with a perfectly good logo is beyond me. Every time they do, they make a mess!
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My favourite is the original but I like the new one next.
Want to save weight and feel good as well? Have a #2 (big poop) right before heading out.
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I guess Geely felt the need to demark themselves from the previous ownership. By removing the logo's unnecessary metallic border and fill, while still maintaining the basic color scheme and brand info, they were simply adding lightness to the logo. :confused: jbcollier: now I know your secret to better road handling before one of your little road trips LMAO
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I do admit that the new logo is better than the change in the '80's but I don't understand the idea behind changing an iconic logo. Would anybody want to change Mercedes' tri-star, BMW's rondel, Ford's script or Chevy's bow tie? I don't get it.
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I came here to post the weight of a steel fuel tank but I see we’re talking about the new plain logo.
Well I’ll just hang on to the nicer old stuff.
BTW it’s just over 10 lbs or 4687 grams
Dakazman
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I weighed my S2 against a Twink on race scales for some real life comparison
S2 (with spare tire and fuel): 1420 lbs.
Twink (no spare tire, but fuel): 1750 lbs.
both cars are factory standard, both alloy wheels.
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Was the S2 a type 54 or a type 65? And I assume the twink had all its emissions equipment in place. That is a hundred pounds more Lotus listed as the federal spec. I am going to try and weigh my car in the next few days.
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I weighed my S2 against a Twink on race scales for some real life comparison
S2 (with spare tire and fuel): 1420 lbs.
Twink (no spare tire, but fuel): 1750 lbs.
both cars are factory standard, both alloy wheels.
Weighing In,
Now this would be an interesting thread ! It would set goals or standards.
Dakazman
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Want to save weight and feel good as well? Have a #2 (big poop) right before heading out.
I came here to post the weight of a steel fuel tank but I see we’re talking about the new plain logo.
Well I’ll just hang on to the nicer old stuff.
BTW it’s just over 10 lbs or 4687 grams
Dakazman
For some reason, the way I read through this thread I thought dakazman was bragging about his massive stools.
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I weighed my S2 against a Twink on race scales for some real life comparison
S2 (with spare tire and fuel): 1420 lbs.
Twink (no spare tire, but fuel): 1750 lbs.
both cars are factory standard, both alloy wheels.
Weighing In,
Now this would be an interesting thread ! It would set goals or standards.
Dakazman
I have not weighed my S2 body, but my S1 shell is probably twice the wight of my twin cam shell. I am curious how much an S1 weighs. I know they are claimed to be the lightest...
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Jbcollier: Have you ever weighed your s1? And if anyone else out there has weighed their Europa, it would be great if you chimed in.
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No. It wouldn't be representative anyway. I have added, just off the top of my head, a hemi, five speed, larger alt, AC, XL rad, front oil cooler.
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While drifting thru the DB catalogue found a page stating save 3 lbs per wheel. Aluminum wheel hubs . I didn’t check the part numbers but it seems they fit a few different lotus vehicles.
Dakazman
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It's unsprung rotating mass, so maximum benefit per pound saved. Lots of sources out there, so you can shop around. I know there are two different stub axle sizes, and you can get different PCD sizes. I wonder if these are all coming from the same manufacturer, and if not then are some better than others, or all equally good so long as you get the right fit?
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Jbcollier: Have you ever weighed your s1? And if anyone else out there has weighed their Europa, it would be great if you chimed in.
My S1 is 1465 lbs. However it's a Zetec transplant, NG3, 7x13" American racing wheels, dual gas tanks, twin link, no bumpers or spare tire.
The bumpers are worthless and it looks better without them.
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SwiftDB4,
Have you a power to weight ratio?
Adding HP and decreasing weight, way to go!!!
Dakazman
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Engine dynoed at 178 hp so 8.2 lbs/hp.
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SwiftDB4 Was that dynoed at the Flywheel or the rear wheels? Either way, congrats on such a killer Europa!!! :beerchug: I bet you surprise a lot of other drivers.
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That's flywheel hp.
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Was the S2 a type 54 or a type 65? And I assume the twink had all its emissions equipment in place. That is a hundred pounds more Lotus listed as the federal spec. I am going to try and weigh my car in the next few days.
It is a Type 65.
The Twink has the smog stuff and the double brake boosters removed.
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Engine dynoed at 178 hp so 8.2 lbs/hp.
243 HP per tonne. That is a great power to weight ratio right up there with an Evora 400.
Here are some common cars Lb/HP and I calculated the HP/Ton. I got the data from this page: https://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/02/best-car-power-to-weight-ratios-feature/
Lb/Hp HP/Ton
Camaro SS 8.1 247
Mustang GT 8.5 235
Camaro SS Convert 8.69 230
Challenger R/T 8.73 229
Mustang GT Convert 8.79 228
Charger R/T 9.07 221
Merch AMG CLA 9.2 217
Merc GLA45 9.22 217
370Z 9.54 210
Camaro SS 9.63 208
Viper SRT 5.24 382
Corvette ZO6 5.42 369
Camaro ZL1 5.97 335
Challenger Hellcat 6.29 318
Cadillac CTS-V 6.47 309
Charger Hellcat 6.57 304
Corvette Z51 7.17 279
Alfa Giulia Quadrofoglio 7.53 266
Merc AMG C63 7.59 264
Lotus Evora 400 7.88 254
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I recently bought four scales through Walmart, https://www.walmart.com/ip/660lbs-LCD-Ac-Digital-Floor-Bench-Postal-Scale-Platform-Shipping-pet-300kg-Weigh/662825874 , with the purpose of weighing my car and setting up the weight distribution using my adjustable spring perches on the Protech shocks. I ramps out of 2x8 lumber. Two 2x8's together gave exactly the same height as the scales. I just cut a ramp.
Attached are photos of the setup.
So, the car weighs 1688.1 lbs with 5/8 full fuel tanks. It is a 1973 Europa Special with a five speed. I have aluminum fuel tanks, aluminum radiator, a 15 pound Odyssey battery and air conditioning. I believe the ac adds about 75 pounds. The weight distribution was 42.6% front and 57.4% rear. The left/right distribution was 49.9% left and 50.1% right without a driver. I attached a spreadsheet, which I obtained online, of my data I adjusted the spring perches to bring the corner weights close to 50/50 with me in the drivers seat.
The scales appear to be very accurate and they worked well.
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Very cool, Pfreen! I've been looking at scales but hadn't found what I consider a reasonably priced one and that's a good one. I found this one which is a little cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WRVRR6N/?coliid=I6UVYFKZCX8KG&colid=2ZYJN8F7T0H3O&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Have you noticed any change in the handling?
BTW, I meant to tell you how cool the company you worked for is!
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Thanks bda. Btw, that’s the same scale. You just found a better price.
I haven’t tested the handling yet. That’s not easy in South Florida. I am planning on autocrossing it, so that might tell me something..
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Hi,
Can help with the weight reduction but was curious where you got the ally flywheel from?
I was just about to have my steel one skimmed and balanced but had been thinking about a lighter ally version
Thanks!
Bart.
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I got an aluminum flywheel from Dave Bean many years ago. I'm sure they still sell them.
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Just got back from Pfreen's house. My TCS with a 1/3 tank of fuel came in at 1491 lbs. without the spare (30lbs) and rear tub and air filter housing (16lbs.). I have a 4 speed, aluminum radiator, aluminum flywheel, alloy rear shocks, gear reduction starter, and a 4 1/2 lb. battery. 93 octane with 10% ethanol weighs 6.37 lbs. per gallon, so about 32 lbs. of fuel was in the tank. And yes Dave Bean still has a few aluminum radiators in stock.
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I put my fully original S1 on racing scales today. With a tank half full of fuel, luggage tray and spare wheel it weights just 610 kg.
I'm pretty happy with the result :)
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At 1387 lbs /610 kg , with a spare, you should be happy.
How much does a 4 speed weigh?
How much does a 5 speed weigh?
Aluminum radiator?
Steel or mag wheels?
Then the real question is what is the power to weight ratio. Most builds nowadays have increased their hp and their torque. I understand add lightness, but to what point. I lift my engine but myself and I’m disabled. The frame is heavy but it might take some lightening holes. The cracks that may happen over time are not worth the weight savings.
There isn’t much more weight items other then battery , rugs, glass, seats, shocks are a big savings. The firewall material is another saving area. Tire size another biggie. Headlight assemblies glass and bumpers ,easy 30- 40 lbs. mufflers have a big range in size and weight. Having two gas tanks add a lot of weight.
Some of our builders have v8 in there cars , I just can’t imagine that ride. So adding hp and torque
Have the advantage in my opinion. I really would like to see an all electric Europa.
Dakazman